Hello all,
I just understood that the watervapour of the Rossi experiment was released in
the room, next to the location of the experiment, because otherwise it would
have been a sauna ( according to Rossi).
I could also see it on the video ( 37 th second).
http://pesn.com/2011/01/17/9501746_Focardi-Rossi_10_kW_cold_fusion_prepping_for_market/
What I would like to know if they have ever measured the amount of heat
recovered from the heat echanger. This would confirm/ deconfirm if they have
completely evaporated the water.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Driscoll
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nagel: Check List for LENR Validation Experiments
The calculations of the steam velocity below translates to a 188 mph jet of
steam coming out of a hose having an area of 1 cm^2 (equates to a 1.13 cm
inner diameter hose or .44" inner diamter)
Double the area of the hose and the velocity will drop by a factor of 2 to 94
mph.
The steam should be transparent for many inches beyond the end of the hose if
sprayed into the room - did it? How do people describe the velocity and
volume of the steam?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Here are some calculations that imply certain water/humidity effects which
should have been observed at the demo.
This is from an associate LENR researcher - Jeff Morriss, in response to
the other issues on steam/vapor raised by Jeff Driscoll and Peter van Noorden,
which so far do not have convincing answers.
Nagel states that 150 grams of water are boiled every 30 sec, or 5 cc/sec.
Taking the density of steam at 100C as .590 Kg/m**3 and ratio-ing it against
the density of liquid water as 1000 kG/m**3 yields a volume increase of 1690.
So each 5 cc of water is converted into 8450 cc of steam every second. If we
estimate the area of the vent hose at ~1 cm**2, then the steam velocity must be
8450 cm/sec of 84.5 m/sec. This is about 1/4 the speed of sound and should
produce quite a jet of steam. Did anyone observe this? Also, the steam would
condense and quickly produce a saturated atmosphere and condensation on metal
surfaces. Again, did anyone observe this?
Here is a second sanity check. The specific heat of dry air at 1 atm is
1.14 kJ/Km**3. If we assume a room volume of 300 m**3 (about the size of an
average classroom) then it takes
(300 m**3)*(1.14 kJ/Km**3) = 342 kJ
to raise the temperature of the room by one degree. The energy required to
boil 18 liters of water is 4.7E4 kJ. So if no heat escaped the room and we
ignored the additional energy change due to an increase in relative humidity
then the ambient temperature should have increased by 4.7e4/342 or about 137
degrees C. Even if the air in the room cycled every 6 minutes (and that would
require special ventilation) the ambient would still rise by 13.7C, which would
be noticeably hot and muggy.
Finally, the 4.7E4 kJ/hour is equivalent to 1.31E4J/sec. As a basis of
comparison, it would be equivalent to 240V at 54 Amps, which is the capacity of
an electric furnace for a large house.
You may want to pass my calculations by someone else for checking, but I
believe they are correct.
Jeff
From: Jeff Driscoll
Was the "steam" exiting the Rossi device transparent or was it an opaque
white? (right at the top where it transitions from the aluminum foil covered
"chimney" to the black hose) …If it is transparent then that would mean it is
water vapor - and truly 12 kW of steam… But if it was white then that would
indicate condensed tiny liquid droplets (or ultrasonic fogging) and fraudulent
scamming.
Water vapor is virtually invisible…. On a tea kettle, the steam immediately
coming out of the kettle is transparent but roughly 1 or 2 inches away the
vapor condenses to tiny droplets which become a white fog.
On Tue, Jan 18, P.J van Noorden <pjvan...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
I wondered why people had no problems with the 8 liters of watervapour
which was released into the room during the Rossi experiment. A simple
experiment in which I evaporised 8 liters of water in a room of 100 m3 with a
powersource of 9 kW ( 3 heaters of each 3 kW) did produce a very humid
atmosphere ( approaching RH 90%) and the temperature rose to more then 30 degr.
Why wasn`t this detected during the experiment of Rossi? If the aircon was
powerfull enough one would still notice a turbulence of warm and cold airflow
in the room.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Driscoll
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nagel: Check List for LENR Validation Experiments
That meter that was listed can measure Relative Humidity but it can not
measure the quality of the steam. As you know, relative humidity just means
how saturated the air is for for the given temperature - it says absolutely
nothing about the quality (dryness or "wetness") of the steam.
The quality of the steam (a.k.a. dryness on Vortex) gives you the ratio of
the mass of vapor to the total mass of water (liquid and vapor) in a given
sample.
It takes complicated expensive instruments to measure the quality of steam
(one device is called a "throttling calorimeter"). A common or even expensive
Relative Humidity instrument can not do it.
If Rossi used an ultrasonic fogger in boiling water, he could get micron
sized droplets at 100 C. That's close enough to 101 C with errors due to
calibration. They should insulate the black hose and stick it in a barrel of
water. 12 kW of steam that is fed into 50 gallons of water (or some number of
gallons) will raise the temperature at rate that could be easily measurable.
If it can be done, find out exactly what information rules out "wet"
steam.
Here is a photo of an ultrasonic fogger using water to produce what looks
like steam, but is in fact micron sized water droplets:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/ultrasonic-fogger-how-does-it-work.html
Here is a link to a description of a "throttling calorimeter" which is a
device that measures the quality ("wetness") of steam. Basically the
throttling calorimeter involves letting the pressurized steam expand into a
cavity and measuring the temperature of the resulting gas. It only works with
pressurized steam such as 30 psia steam or higher so that it can expand down to
15 psia or atmospheric pressure.
http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2003/378.html?page=full
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff Driscoll <hcarb...@gmail.com> wrote:
How can you use an indoor air quality meter (listed in Jed's email) to
measure the dryness of the steam? (you can't)
Apparently you can. The person who did this is reportedly an expert in
steam. I gather this meter measures RH in steam as well as air.
Can it be faked the following way:
Use an ultrasonic fogger operating at 1.6 MHz to create micron size
droplets. Heat the droplets to 90 C and then send it down the black hose.
The temperature of the steam out the outlet is measured with a
thermocouple. It is 101 deg C. So it is definitely steam, or a mixture of steam
and water. The RH meter ensures that is all dry steam.
- Jed
