At 05:22 PM 6/22/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Joshua Cude wrote:
Nope. All you have to know is how dry the steam is, what the
temperature is, and what the total mass of the steam is. You can
derive the steam flow rate from that.
Right. But how do you get the total mass of the steam? Even in your
interpretation of what information that device provides, it only
gives mass per unit volume. So you need the volume to get the mass.
To get the volume, you need the flow rate. Infinite loop. It's a
rookie mistake, and you're a seasoned programmer.
I repeat: they measure the total mass, separately. They measure the
weight of the water reservoir before and after the test. The mass of
water is starting weight minus ending weight. The flow rate does not
vary significantly with this kind of pump. If you want to know what
it is, divide the mass by the duration of the test.
If the flow rate does change significantly, or if the machine starts
putting out more power or less power, the RH meter will tell you.
The temperature will change.
Let's agree on this: the total mass is reasonably accurately
measured. The problem is that we don't know where this mass goes. If
it all goes to dry steam, great! Then the total energy can easily be
calculated, given a few other parameters, such as pressure and
temperature (feed water and outlet temperature, and output pressure)
There is some possible error from changes in water level inside the
device. One of the problems here is a constant input flow rate, which
has been pointed out raises some question! However, neglecting that
shift, the question is how much of the input water has been converted
to steam, and how much is merely hot water.
Water may leave the device in two ways, other than as steam: it may
leave as entrained droplets, mist, or it might leave as an actual
flow of water. Suppose that the input flow exceeds the boiloff rate.
If so, then the water level in the E-Cat will rise until it flows out
the hose. The hose is fairly large diameter, so it might take some
significant time to fill the hose.
If water that has actually flowed out the hose is considered as
having boiled, then, of course, the output energy might be
drastically overestimated.
And nothing we have seen rules out this kind of flow. We do know that
there is some water in that hose, that's what Rossi is emptying into
the drain when he raises up the hose in the Krivit video. That water
might be condensed steam, even if the steam is dry entering the hose.
Or it might just be water being pumped out! I see no way to tell, if
that water goes into the drain.
There are ways that have been described which would rule out this
direct flow of water, as well as to measure the water content of the
steam itself. In a good design, here, I'd expect the steam quality to
be high, and Rossi has actually acknowledged that the early tests
were of E-Cats with wet steam! (He claims to have fixed it!)
But those clearer demonstrations *have not been done,* and this whole
flap about the use of RH meters and mass/volume (a semantic issue
that only steamed up Krivit, Rossi, and Levi, and then people lining
up to give ignorant opinions all over the internet) is just obscuring smoke.
Note: you could have dry steam with water flowing out the hose. It
would depend on exactly where the steam quality was measured. If
there was no mist, there could easily be dry steam above a certain
water level, and the water level in the E-Cat only would have to
reach up to the bottom of the hose port.
