On Oct 8, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
Horace wrote:
"Yet a higher than 100°C reading was present for the thermometer
inside the
E-cat. That indicates a good possibility that this high reading is
merely a
systematic false reading."
Horace,
The T2 thermometer (inside the E-Cat) started out at nearly the
same temp as
the peristaltic pump water (T3),
T3: 25.6C @ 11:22
T2: 29.9C @ 11:22
Ok, so worst case is that T2 is reading ~4C higher than T3, but
then, T3 has
water flow over it, whereas T2 is INSIDE the E-Cat and supposedly
above any
liquid water (in order to measure steam temperatures). So as the
reactor is
heating up, the air inside the reactor is also heating up and we see a
steady rise in T2. So far the behavior of T2 is not anomalous.
Therefore, I don't see any justification for your saying that the 120C
readings for almost 2 hours were "merely systematic false readings".
T3, which is the water temp going into the Reactor core, remained
quite
stable (+-0.7 C) for nearly the whole test.
T2 on the other hand, spent a lot of time above 120C, and was also
reasonably stable... obviously, measurements significantly above
boiling
temp would indicate superheated steam if the pressure inside was
not much
above ambient. Lewan also put his hand on the E-Cat during Self-
sustain
mode several times and could feel the rumblings indicating significant
boiling. Why do you think that all of the time that T2 is >100C,
that it
must be false readings??? Are you saying that the T2 thermometer was
reading 10's of degrees off???
-Mark
I m not saying the T2 thermometer is reading its local temperature
wrong. I am saying that its local temperature could be under the
influence of the huge thermal mass of lead and steel, which is
located within the insulation jacket. In the case of the earlier E-
cats this appeared to be likely. In the case of the E-cat in this
test we simply do not know where the T2 thermocouple is located. The
thermal mass is on the order of 30000 J/K, as I computed in the
"STORED HEAT" section of my review. At a delta T of 200 °C this is
about 6 MJ of thermal storage. If there is some thermal resistance
R1 to the T2 thermocouple, and a thermal resistance R2 to the 100°C
water, then the thermocouple will be at a temperature of 100°C + (R2/
(R1+R2))*200°C. To get a 30°C difference all is needed is for r=(R2/
(R1+R2)) to satisfy:
r * 200°C = 30°C
r = 0.15
The interpretation made regarding the earlier E-cats was the steam/
water had to be under pressure to permit a 120°C temperature near the
exit port. My point was this does not necessarily follow. The high
temperature could merely be a systematic artifact. In the case of the
current test it does not matter if it is due to superheated steam in
the locality or due to direct high thermal conductivity to the
thermocouple from the large metal thermal mass which is directly in
contact with the heater. Because it is above 100°C I take it as an
indication heat is stored which can provide a stream of hot water to
influence the close by Tout location.
At the heat exchanger side of things, a similar formula applies, but
the water does not even have to be 100°C, merely hot enough to obtain
a small delta T to the Tout temperature. If we designate Thot to be
the temperature of the water arriving at the steam/hot water entry
port, then there is some composite thermal resistance R1 from the
Tout water to the Tout thermocouple, and a similar thermal resistance
R2 to the Thot water/steam, then the thermocouple will be at a
temperature of 24°C + (R2/(R1+R2)*100°C. To get an 8°C difference all
is needed is for r=(R2/(R1+R2)) to satisfy:
r * (100°C-24°C) = 8°C
r = 8/76 = 0.1
We see the Tout temperature decline with the E-cat temperature at the
end. This could be an indication the water temperature was actually
less than 100°C. It could also be a partial indication of flow
reduction.
It is notable that the T2 thermometer inside the E-cat could possibly
be under the influence of the "low power frequency device" at the end
of the run, and thus maintain an artificially high temperature. It
would be useful to have some form of thermometer at the Thot location.
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
