Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[Edmund Storms]

Chuck, we have three separate and independent questions here. First,  
can a BEC based on atoms form in a lattice at room temperature. In  
spite of Kim, theory says this is not possible. Second, can such a  
cluster lead to fusion?  My answer is NO because the nuclear charge is  
not eliminated by forming a BEC. Yes, wave functions can overlay, but  
this is essentially a chemical process that would not affect the  
nucleus because too little energy is involved. Third, will the  
resulting fusion reaction produce hot fusion or cold fusion? My answer  
is that hot fusion must result because no part of the process can  
dissipate the energy before fusion takes place.  It is not enough to  
just throw out an idea with a little math and claim this explains  
anything. The entire process must be described in a logically  
connected way.

My theory attempts to do this. Yes, some previous ideas might be  
applied, but only as PART of the process.

Ed
On Feb 10, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Chuck Sites wrote:

HI Ed,

    I think it is apparent that a BEC in it's normal sense with  
temps at near absolute zero is out of the question as you note.   
There are too many problems like the coupling of the lattice to the  
fusion reaction.  Still if you review Kim's several presentations  
over the years he has developed a consistent and testable  
theoretical frame work for a N-body mechanism of cold fusion at and  
above room temperatures.  I've always thought the physics was  
intriguing regardless of the nuclear aspects, that a condensate  
deuterium ions (or positive Bose ions or even virtual integer spin  
particles) could even form in a metal lattice.

I also like the Chubbs' concepts and it's evaluation of deuterium  
ions moving through a lattice and creating something new in  
physics,  Bose-Band states.   In a periodic potential created by the  
host metal, you can work out a system where the bose deuterons form  
quantum band states like the electron band states found in solid  
state physics realm.  However, unlike electrons that have to obay  
the Polli exclusion principle,  particles in the Bose band could  
occupy the same state, and from BE statistics would prefer to occupy  
the bands grounds states.  It even seems likely that the Bose-band  
could even be superconducting with respect to the ion channels which  
would show up as a drop in resistance,  something that people have  
observed.   It seems possible that H2 molecules (or pseudo-H2  
molecules in a metal lattice like Ni) could also have bose band  
states.

Even your suggestion Dr. Storm the hydrogen (H or D) could collect  
in lattice dislocations is interesting with respect to either Kim's  
or Chubbs' work.   For example a long 1-D chain of deuterons might  
have some really unusual quantum states just due to the 1- 
dimensional nature of the chain.   It might fit a kronig-penny model  
of periodic potentials and have even better potential of N-body  
fusion because of the quantum geometry.

As far as why a BEC might result in nuclear fusion,  there is a  
couple of papers that were published years prior to P&F's big  
announce by Richard L Liboff on D fusion rates in degenerate gas (a  
BEC), basically from the overlapping wave functions from 2 D ions.   
It may have appeared in Physics Letters circa 1977.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=R.+L.+Liboff+BOSE&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C18

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01050663?LI=true

What is fun reading Liboff's work is he is talking very very cold  
fusion! Near absolute zero cold fusion!

Anyway, that's the basis of my naive understanding the BEC concepts  
for LERN.   No doubt there is much more to learn and discover.

Best Regards,
Chuck
-----

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Edmund Storms  
<stor...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Chuck, consider these issues. First, the BEC between atoms has not  
been shown to occur except near absolute zero. The claim for such a  
structure between hypothetical particles based on a form of  
concentrated energy within a structure really does not apply.  
Second. once a BEC forms, why would you think it would result in a  
nuclear reaction? Third, if a fusion reaction occurred, why would it  
not take the form of hot fusion? After all, the energy has to be  
dissipated by a process that is not in evidence in the BEC.  This  
idea is based on a series of assumptions having no relationship to  
the theory of the BEC and total ignorance about the electron  
structure in PdD.  What constitutes a boson is even uncertain in  
such a structure.

I suggest you read my explanation.

Ed

On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:33 PM, Chuck Sites wrote:

Its great to read Kim's reply.  I;ve followed Dr. YE Kim's work for  
years along with the Scott and Talbot Chubbs.   I was convinced  
years ago, that the only mechanism that would work for cold fusion  
was a BEC.  A Bose Einstein Condensate.  It's a known physics fact  
that particles that enter the BEC state form a single quantum  
state, and become something that is just best described as weird.   
The actual matter wave (the De Broglie wave) that describes matter  
at the smallest scales, overlaps.  When you have overlapping  
waveforms of a particle that has an attractive nuclear  potential,  
they just snap together within very well defined probabilities.    
It's the particles waveform overlap that will induce fusion.

What Kim shows is that within solids metals, deuterium ions  
screened and charge neutralized by the metals electron sea, can  
condense and form a BEC.  When deuterium is in a BEC state there is  
probability that the deuteriums will interact via strong  
interactions. Dr. Kim has suggest two things of interest.  First,  
that condensation could happen in a hydrated metal and the rules  
that describe the quantum overlap are modified my the metals  
electronic environment.   In YE Kim's theory, it only takes 10-100  
Deuterium ions to make a BEC within a metal.  And the number of  
ions in the BEC glob is temperature relative.

I think Kim's theory is pretty convincing with deuterium in  
metals,  What has been difficult for me is explaining the Hydrogen  
in metal systems.  The problem being that H-ion is a fermion  
quantum 1/2 spin state, and is forced to follow the Pauli exclusion  
principle and so will never have an overlapping waveforms or the  
potential for strong interactions between protons.

Perhaps a pair of H ions waveforms interacting with W/Z's might  
flip enough to the Proton-Proton chain.  As it is now, I really  
struggle to understand how H in a metal creates excess heat.

Best Regards,
Chuck

--------

s
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Kevin O'Malley  
<kevmol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Vorts:
See below for confirmation from YE Kim that the formation of a BEC  
at room temperature gives his LENR theory a leg up.






Kevin O'Malley <kevmol...@gmail.com>
1:22 PM (4 hours ago)



to yekim, ayandas, pkb

Hello Dr. Kim. I left you a voicemail regarding this. Does the  
formation of a BEC at room temperature make your theory of Deuteron  
Fusion more viable? Wasn't the main criticism of your theory that  
BECs couldn't form at higher temperatures?
Y. E. Kim, "Bose-Einstein Condensate Theory of Deuteron Fusion in  
Metal", J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 4, 188 (2011),
best regards,
Kevin O'Malley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/29/1210842110

Polariton Bose–Einstein condensate at room temperature in an  
Al(Ga)N nanowire–dielectric microcavity with a spatial potential  
trap

Ayan Dasa,1,
Pallab Bhattacharyaa,1,
Junseok Heoa,
Animesh Banerjeea, and
Wei Guob

Author Affiliations

Edited by Paul L. McEuen, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, and  
approved December 21, 2012 (received for review June 28, 2012)

Abstract

A spatial potential trap is formed in a 6.0-μm Al(Ga)N nanowire by  
varying the Al composition along its length during epitaxial  
growth. The polariton emission characteristics of a dielectric  
microcavity with the single nanowire embedded in-plane have been  
studied at room temperature. Excitation is provided at the Al(Ga)N  
end of the nanowire, and polariton emission is observed from the  
lowest bandgap GaN region within the potential trap. Comparison of  
the results with those measured in an identical microcavity with a  
uniform GaN nanowire and having an identical exciton–photon  
detuning suggests evaporative cooling of the polaritons as they are  
transported into the trap in the Al(Ga)N nanowire. Measurement of  
the spectral characteristics of the polariton emission, their  
momentum distribution, first-order spatial coherence, and time- 
resolved measurements of polariton cooling provides strong evidence  
of the formation of a near-equilibrium Bose–Einstein condensate in  
the GaN region of the nanowire at room temperature. In contrast,  
the condensate formed in the uniform GaN nanowire–dielectric  
microcavity without the spatial potential trap is only in self- 
equilibrium.

Bose–Einstein condensation
exciton–polariton
Footnotes
1To whom correspondence may be addressed.
E-mail: ayan...@umich.edu or p...@umich.edu.



Author contributions: A.D. and P.B. designed research; A.D. and  
J.H. performed research; J.H., A.B., and W.G. contributed new  
reagents/analytic tools; A.D. analyzed data; and P.B. wrote the  
paper.

The authors declare no conflict of interest.

This article is a PNAS Direct Submission.

This article contains supporting information online at
http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1210842110/-/DCSupplemental 
.

Freely available online through the PNAS open access option.
 Reply
 Reply to all
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Kim, Yeong E
5:24 PM (32 minutes ago)



to me, ayandas, pkb

Hi, Kevin,

Yes, the formation of a BEC of deuterons (or other Bose nuclei)  
makes my theory more viable.


The claim, made by some that BECs could not form at room  
temperatures, was based on an inconclusive conjecture

which assumes that the Maxwell-Boltzmann (MB ) velocity  
distribution applies for deuterons in a metal.

This conjecture was not based on any theories nor on any  
experimentally observed facts.

The MB velocity distribution is for an ideal gas containing non- 
interacting particles.

There are no justifications to assume the MB velocity distribution  
for deuterons in a metal.

The published paper by Dasa, et al. quoted below indicates that the  
conjecture is not justified.


I have stated at seminars and conferences (in the proceedings) that


“The BEC formation of deuterons in metal at room temperatures  
depends on the velocity distribution

of deuterons in metal at room temperatures. The velocity  
distribution of deuterons in metal has not

determined by theories nor by experiments and is not expected to be  
the MB distribution”


The published paper by Dasa, et al. supports the above statement.

Yeong


keSent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:22 PM
To: Kim, Yeong E
Cc: ayan...@umich.edu; p...@umich.edu
Subject: Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature