Begin forwarded message:
From: Edmund Storms <[email protected]>
Date: June 29, 2013 8:30:35 AM MDT
To: Eric <[email protected]>
Cc: Edmund Storms <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Could Rossi add DC Power to AC Lines?
Thanks Eric! Another voice of reality and reason is heard. I agree
with your analysis. Ross not only does not have the ability to
create the claimed fraud, but also he does not have the incentive to
create one that would be so easy to discover. He has a method that
produces anomalous energy, as has been demonstrated to be possible
by numerous studies. He has spent his own money trying to get a
device to market. The device has been examined by competent people,
but perhaps not as perfectly as anyone would want. Nevertheless,
enough to satisfy investors, which is the only people who matter at
this stage.
The skeptics are clearly irrational on several levels. As Jones
said, if Rossi is right, he will greatly help mankind. If Rossi is
wrong, only his investors will be hurt. So why would any rational
person work to find fault in what he is doing if they are not
potential investors? Do these people not have a life they can use to
actually make a contribution to society? Are examples of REAL fraud
that has clearly harmed everyone not enough to get their interest?
Ed
On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Eric wrote:
So I read this board all the time but have not posted as you guys
are usually smarter than I am.
However, I am an Electrical Engineer working with many other
Electrical Engineers and the question of how easy would it be to
add DC power to the AC lines was interesting enough that we
discussed it.
Here is our conclusion:
Could it be done - Yes
However it would be somewhat tricky and there would be at least one
trick needed to hide it from the power analyzer.
The simplest way would be the add a DC source in the neutral leg of
the three phase before it exited the wall socket, better right at
the three phase transformer.
This would cause a DC current to flow in all phases that are
connected. Since the third phase does not appear to be connected
that would be two phases.
The DC supply would be in series with the three phase AC so it
would need to allow the AC to flow through it's output stage
without trying the regulate the AC or overheating. This would not
be any DC supply we are aware of except maybe a battery, and the
issue with a battery would be that they have limited hours of
charge and the amount of power needed to create a COP of 3 might be
more than most batteries can supply without recharging. Adding a
charger to maintain the battery charge would be similar to adding a
DC power supply in that it could try to regulate the AC and it
would have to pass some of the AC (the battery with a very low
resistance would be in parallel so most of the AC would go through
the battery) thus heating up. Also the battery would be passing AC
current and heating up as well. However without running numbers on
the power & current needed (too lazy I guess) how much heat is not
known.
So this could be done, though as stated this is not simple in a
couple of ways.
However, there is a much more interesting problem which would need
to be overcome and which in my opinion rules out the concept of
hiding DC power on the three phase AC, one which when it was
pointed out to our skeptics of Rossi was not something they could
determine a reasonable engineering work around to deal with.
The problem is that it appears that Rossi is using a TRAIC current
chopper to control the power in the control box. This can be seen
in the very typical current waveform shown on the power analyzer in
the appendix of the report issues by the evaluating committee. On
the pictures of the analyzer are the AC voltages for all three
phases and the AC currents for the two phases which are providing
AC current.
For those two phases the current shown has both a positive pulse
and a negative pulse. The amplitude of these two pulses is
reasonable equal at around 5 Amps. This is due to how a TRIAC
behaves as it shuts off when the current flowing through it drops
below a predetermined amount. With an AC waveform centered around 0
Volts the TRIAC shuts off symmetrically. If there was a DC current
on either of those phases the TRAIC would not turn off in a
symmetric fashion and one of the two polarities would have a much
higher peak current while the other polarity would have a much
lower peak current.
Therefore from the data shown it is clear that if Rossi is adding a
DC bias in power to the AC power then he had to anticipate the use
of an AC power analyzer and create a design inside his control box
to remove the DC power before the TRAIC, which surly could be done
although the circuit I can think of off the top of my head would be
complicated and require significant development. The typical TRAIC
circuit would not provide this.
Thus based on the data we can reasonable conclude that there is not
a simple DC power supply added to the AC power.
We of course cannot conclude that a complex system was not used,
however based on what he has done in the past Rossi has not shown
himself to be much of an Electrical Engineer and thus I am
skeptical of his ability to rig up something complex enough to fool
the power analyzer as to the currents on the polarities of the AC
power.
As an aside I have some experience with current measurement using
current probes and various equipment. Given the level of the AC
Analyzer and its specifications it is clear that it was not
designed the ACCURATLY measure DC voltage and currents, however
that does not mean that it does not do so...since it provided
spectrum analysis it is must likely do an A/D sampling and an FFT
on the resulting data which is really an instantaneous DC
measurement every so many micro-seconds. The only question would be
a accuracy of the current probe itself at lower frequencies down to
DC which probably is not on the same order as the published specs
at the power line frequencies, however looking at the complexity of
the probes shown in the manufacturer's catalog I personally think
that they would have included a DC measuring technology for such a
higher end analyzer though it would not be accurate enough to
advertise. (Of course I have been wrong before)...
BTW the other way that Rossi could be transmitting DC power would
be through the unused phase & neutral. If this is the case the DC
current would still be returning to the DC source on neutral. This
might still provide some issues with the TRIAC current waveforms on
the other lines, but would seem to be simpler than a DC bias on all
the AC lines.
