The terms of your wager conflate Rossi with Rossi's invention. T here is also the general problem with prediction markets:
They reward ability to predict shifts in public opinion more than they reward foresight about nature. That's a very nasty conflation, indeed. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:24 PM, blaze spinnaker <[email protected]>wrote: > Well, if you guys are so sure of this, buy your call/put options now, > you'll make a lot of money.. > > > On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, H Veeder <[email protected]> wrote: > >> The tide is coming in and people are oblivious. >> Harry >> >> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 11:26 AM, blaze spinnaker < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Because the implications, if the AHE report is accurate, are >>> overwhelming. And while it will be net positive, there will be massive >>> creative destruction that will occur if the eCat is real. For example, in >>> my province alone huge political spending programs on education and social >>> welfare are being made on the promise of future tax and royalty earnings >>> over the next decade from our natural gas production (ng which is mostly >>> used for heating). >>> >>> If those revenues are about to be disrupted, this has huge implications >>> on our province and how we plan our infrastructure spending. 10+ Billion >>> dollar loans and guarantees are being made based on our current plans. >>> Those 10s of billions of tax dollars could potentially be wasted. >>> >>> That's just one tiny example that I have specific experience with. >>> Survey things on a more global basis and you'll see thousands of similar >>> examples worldwide. >>> >>> So to idly discuss these claims without proper verification is very >>> careless. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>> *From: *Edmund Storms <[email protected]> >>>> *Date: *June 29, 2013 8:30:35 AM MDT >>>> *To: *Eric <[email protected]> >>>> *Cc: *Edmund Storms <[email protected]> >>>> *Subject: **Re: [Vo]:Could Rossi add DC Power to AC Lines?* >>>> >>>> Thanks Eric! Another voice of reality and reason is heard. I agree with >>>> your analysis. Ross not only does not have the ability to create the >>>> claimed fraud, but also he does not have the incentive to create one that >>>> would be so easy to discover. He has a method that produces anomalous >>>> energy, as has been demonstrated to be possible by numerous studies. He >>>> has spent his own money trying to get a device to market. The device has >>>> been examined by competent people, but perhaps not as perfectly as anyone >>>> would want. Nevertheless, enough to satisfy investors, which is the only >>>> people who matter at this stage. >>>> >>>> The skeptics are clearly irrational on several levels. As Jones said, >>>> if Rossi is right, he will greatly help mankind. If Rossi is wrong, only >>>> his investors will be hurt. So why would any rational person work to find >>>> fault in what he is doing if they are not potential investors? Do these >>>> people not have a life they can use to actually make a contribution to >>>> society? Are examples of REAL fraud that has clearly harmed everyone not >>>> enough to get their interest? >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Eric wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> So I read this board all the time but have not posted as you guys are >>>> usually smarter than I am. >>>> >>>> However, I am an Electrical Engineer working with many other Electrical >>>> Engineers and the question of how easy would it be to add DC power to the >>>> AC lines was interesting enough that we discussed it. >>>> >>>> Here is our conclusion: >>>> >>>> Could it be done - Yes >>>> >>>> However it would be somewhat tricky and there would be at least one >>>> trick needed to hide it from the power analyzer. >>>> >>>> The simplest way would be the add a DC source in the neutral leg of the >>>> three phase before it exited the wall socket, better right at the three >>>> phase transformer. >>>> >>>> This would cause a DC current to flow in all phases that are connected. >>>> Since the third phase does not appear to be connected that would be two >>>> phases. >>>> >>>> The DC supply would be in series with the three phase AC so it would >>>> need to allow the AC to flow through it's output stage without trying the >>>> regulate the AC or overheating. This would not be any DC supply we are >>>> aware of except maybe a battery, and the issue with a battery would be that >>>> they have limited hours of charge and the amount of power needed to create >>>> a COP of 3 might be more than most batteries can supply without recharging. >>>> Adding a charger to maintain the battery charge would be similar to adding >>>> a DC power supply in that it could try to regulate the AC and it would have >>>> to pass some of the AC (the battery with a very low resistance would be in >>>> parallel so most of the AC would go through the battery) thus heating up. >>>> Also the battery would be passing AC current and heating up as well. >>>> However without running numbers on the power & current needed (too lazy I >>>> guess) how much heat is not known. >>>> >>>> So this could be done, though as stated this is not simple in a couple >>>> of ways. >>>> >>>> However, there is a much more interesting problem which would need to >>>> be overcome and which in my opinion rules out the concept of hiding DC >>>> power on the three phase AC, one which when it was pointed out to our >>>> skeptics of Rossi was not something they could determine a reasonable >>>> engineering work around to deal with. >>>> >>>> The problem is that it appears that Rossi is using a TRAIC current >>>> chopper to control the power in the control box. This can be seen in the >>>> very typical current waveform shown on the power analyzer in the appendix >>>> of the report issues by the evaluating committee. On the pictures of the >>>> analyzer are the AC voltages for all three phases and the AC currents for >>>> the two phases which are providing AC current. >>>> >>>> For those two phases the current shown has both a positive pulse and a >>>> negative pulse. The amplitude of these two pulses is reasonable equal at >>>> around 5 Amps. This is due to how a TRIAC behaves as it shuts off when the >>>> current flowing through it drops below a predetermined amount. With an AC >>>> waveform centered around 0 Volts the TRIAC shuts off symmetrically. If >>>> there was a DC current on either of those phases the TRAIC would not turn >>>> off in a symmetric fashion and one of the two polarities would have a much >>>> higher peak current while the other polarity would have a much lower peak >>>> current. >>>> >>>> Therefore from the data shown it is clear that if Rossi is adding a DC >>>> bias in power to the AC power then he had to anticipate the use of an AC >>>> power analyzer and create a design inside his control box to remove the DC >>>> power before the TRAIC, which surly could be done although the circuit I >>>> can think of off the top of my head would be complicated and require >>>> significant development. The typical TRAIC circuit would not provide this. >>>> >>>> Thus based on the data we can reasonable conclude that there is not a >>>> simple DC power supply added to the AC power. >>>> >>>> We of course cannot conclude that a complex system was not used, >>>> however based on what he has done in the past Rossi has not shown himself >>>> to be much of an Electrical Engineer and thus I am skeptical of his ability >>>> to rig up something complex enough to fool the power analyzer as to the >>>> currents on the polarities of the AC power. >>>> >>>> As an aside I have some experience with current measurement using >>>> current probes and various equipment. Given the level of the AC Analyzer >>>> and its specifications it is clear that it was not designed the ACCURATLY >>>> measure DC voltage and currents, however that does not mean that it does >>>> not do so...since it provided spectrum analysis it is must likely do an A/D >>>> sampling and an FFT on the resulting data which is really an instantaneous >>>> DC measurement every so many micro-seconds. The only question would be a >>>> accuracy of the current probe itself at lower frequencies down to DC which >>>> probably is not on the same order as the published specs at the power line >>>> frequencies, however looking at the complexity of the probes shown in the >>>> manufacturer's catalog I personally think that they would have included a >>>> DC measuring technology for such a higher end analyzer though it would not >>>> be accurate enough to advertise. (Of course I have been wrong before)... >>>> >>>> BTW the other way that Rossi could be transmitting DC power would be >>>> through the unused phase & neutral. If this is the case the DC current >>>> would still be returning to the DC source on neutral. This might still >>>> provide some issues with the TRIAC current waveforms on the other lines, >>>> but would seem to be simpler than a DC bias on all the AC lines. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
