Urb LeJeune wrote:
>
> > tenured professors who were internationally renowned experts in their
> > field. from what i've heard, that was normal. neither of my parents
> > attended a class with more than fifty students, or took a class taught
> > entirely by a TA or graduate student. my own experience was entirely
>
> This is primarily true in Universities. I tought in a state
> college and there were only two rooms in the entire school that could
> hold more than 35 students. That's the norm in most colleges. The real
> problem is parents, not students. Parents want there progeny to go to
> big name Universities. Most students (SATs under 1300) would be much
> better server at samller schools where teaching, as opposed to research,
> is valued.
I have to side with Mike here. The budget cuts of the 80s devastated
public colleges. We had fights in the registration lines just so
seniors could get into classes they were *required* to take for
graduation. Whole new plans are in place now to account for
overcrowding and prioritization of classes. English and philosophy
classes had 35, required courses, languages, history, programming, etc,
had hundreds (my PASCAL course had 200 students, one prof and 3 TAs, two
of whom could barely speak English). As an English major, I had to
change major for two semesters just to get into programming classes so I
could meet priority system requirements.
What I learned in college:
-how to cut corners, suck up and get things done in a bureaucracy
-how to learn on my own, and to identify good resources for learning
-just because someone wrote a book about it doesn't mean they know squat
-Thomas Pynchon is a genius
-too much priority is put on possession of degrees, and too few of them
are really earned
> > my grouch is that the person who can make a contemporary college education
> > meaningful is very nearly self-taught. that kind of person could receive
> > nearly as much benefit from reading a couple dozen books on the subject at
> > hand.
>
> Why not turn that knowledge into a degree in a non-traditional
> school?
Kind of defeats the purpose. While in some cases it might be
worthwhile, I get this a lot: "Why don't you formalize that business
systems knowledge you have with an MBA?"
Simple:
1. Just about everything I learned about business I learned because
someone with a formalized MBA got in my way and I had to be able to get
around them
2. It would detract from the time I spend learning the things I really
need to know
3. Most of what I have considered "valuable" in learning in the last
five years is not something they teach
4. The time spent re-arranging my life to accommodate even
non-traditional coursework still requires me to reduce the learning that
interests me mosts, and further detracts from being able to get work
done (i.e., I consider reading WCA email and daily visits to slashdot
(with follow-up reading) some of the best weekly education I get . . .
and not worth trading my evenings for so I can go to night school)
5. People who hire requiring a specific degree flag themselves more
often than not as really not getting it, and using the fallback
catch-all to protect themselves
In most cases, the "most" intelligent people I know, almost without
failure, either don't have degrees at all, or have a degree in something
utterly unrelated to the subject they express genius in.
I'm not saying "don't get a degree". I have four myself. I just don't
think, in retrospect, they did as much for me intellect-wise as they did
connection wise. Many, many times I've felt like I've received respect
for the wrong reasons. Many, many more times I've been slotted into
specific areas and otherwise darn good opinions discounted because they
weren't in "my area of training."
My "area of training" is life :P It's all in there somewhere :)
The key is to get a degree if you decide that you can truly benefit in
ways that matter to you, and can come away with it satisfied. But don't
follow popular thought and just get one--get one that matters. If that
'degree' is nothing more than going to college, learning how to work the
system, and dropping out in frustration, that's fine--but recognize it
for what it really is, and use what you learn to go educate yourself.
Learn what you need and learn what matters to you . . . but don't
automatically equate that with the formalized education system :)
Then go out and willingly vote to spend some tax money on educating the
next generation better.
B
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