Hi Yasuko, Somehow your example isn't working. Could you copy & paste the HTML?
- Ryosuke On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Yasuo Kida <k...@apple.com> wrote: > Thank you Ryosuke. This is a good demo. 5px is only barely legible and I > agree it is too small. 6px is legible but not fun to read. 7px looks > reasonable lower bound to me. > > 12pt text with 96dpi would translates to 16px, 50% ruby would be 8px. > 10.5pt which is often used by printed books is 14px, 50% ruby would be 7px. > > I do not think we should make the limit larger than 8px. The larger the > ruby size gets the more often you need to put extra gaps in the base text, > which makes the base text harder to read. See the > 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> . > > - kida > > On 2010/11/03, at 14:01, David Hyatt wrote: > > Yeah, that demo makes me think maybe 9px is fine after all. :) > > dave > > On Nov 3, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > I think 5px is way too small. Maybe 7 or 8 at least but even those are > really hard to read in high-resolution displays. See > demo<http://plexode.com/eval3/#ht=5px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E4%BB%8A%E6%97%A5%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A5px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%8D%E3%82%87%E3%81%86%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%AF%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E8%89%AF%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A5px%3B%22%3E%E3%82%88%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%84%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E5%A4%A9%E6%B0%97%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A5px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%A6%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cbr%3E%0A6px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E4%BB%8A%E6%97%A5%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A6px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%8D%E3%82%87%E3%81%86%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%AF%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E8%89%AF%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A6px%3B%22%3E%E3%82%88%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%84%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E5%A4%A9%E6%B0%97%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A6px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%A6%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cbr%3E%0A7px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E4%BB%8A%E6%97%A5%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%8D%E3%82%87%E3%81%86%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%AF%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E8%89%AF%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3E%E3%82%88%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%84%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E5%A4%A9%E6%B0%97%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%A6%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cbr%3E%0A8px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E4%BB%8A%E6%97%A5%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%8D%E3%82%87%E3%81%86%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%AF%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E8%89%AF%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3E%E3%82%88%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%E3%81%84%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E%E5%A4%A9%E6%B0%97%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3E%E3%81%A6%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cbr%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&ohh=1&ohj=1&jt=&ojh=1&ojj=1&ms=100&oth=0&otj=0&cex=1> > . > > - Ryosuke > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, David Hyatt <hy...@apple.com> wrote: > >> That document also states: >> >> "When the size of base characters is very small (for e.g. smaller than >> seven points), ruby which is half the size, will be even more small and >> illegible. In such cases where the size of base characters is very small, >> ruby is not a suitable method of annotation. In those cases, consider other >> annotation methods such as adding the reading in parenthesis immediately >> after the base character. >> >> It also sounds like we need to special case Ruby elements and allow their >> font sizes to go down to about 5px instead of 9px. Anything lower, and >> you're getting to the point where ruby was unsuitable (according to the text >> above) anyway, since the base text was so small. >> >> I filed: >> >> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48942 >> >> dave >> (hy...@apple.com) >> >> On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Yasuo Kida wrote: >> >> In printing the standard is 50% of the base text. For larger point sizes >> like headings, the size of ruby is often smaller than 50%. >> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-jlreq-20090604/#en-subheading2_3_3 >> >> So, how about we default to 50% and see how they come out. Glyphs designed >> for ruby are optimized for those small point sizes. It is possible on some >> screen resolutions we might want to make it a bit bigger but as screen >> resolution gets higher I think it makes more sense to stick to 50% following >> the standard in printing. >> >> - kida >> >> On 2010/11/03, at 12:05, Eric Mader wrote: >> >> >> On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:56 AM, David Hyatt wrote: >> >> WebKit enforces a minimum font size of 9px when no explicit font size is >> specified. This means that the font for <rt> cannot fall below 9px if it is >> relative to the user agent default. It may be that we want to consider >> modifying this minimum for ruby text and allow it to go below 9px though. >> I'm not sure. >> >> >> Yes, that's probably what I'm seeing. I'm using default font size, which >> is probably 12pt. >> >> If you make a really big Ruby (e.g., <ruby style="font-size:96px"> and >> then modify the font-size percentage on the <rt>, you should be able to see >> it take effect. >> >> We should probably just study real-world Japanese examples to see how >> small Ruby typically is allowed to get. If it can go below 9px and still be >> readable, we should perhaps consider allowing that. >> >> >> I'm sure the detailed spec. addresses this issue. I'll review it. >> >> In terms of excluding Ruby text from the overall line height, I don't >> think the font-size of the <rt> is particularly relevant. You just want to >> hack the Ruby to turn the ruby text into overflow rather than having it be >> part of the overall height of the inline-block. >> >> >> Of course. The website I was using has the line height set too tight for >> correct display this way, and I just wanted to try a smaller size to see if >> it looked better. OTOH, that site loads a style sheet that overrides the >> ruby text font-size to 6pt, so I can't easily override it, and its' probably >> displaying as 9pt anyhow. >> >> dave >> (hy...@apple.com) >> >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Eric Mader wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> As part of my work on ruby text enhancements, I'm implementing the option >> of not counting the height of the ruby text in the overall line height. As >> part of this, I wanted to play with changing the size of the ruby text. I'm >> trying to do this by changing the following lines in >> <WebKit>/WebCore/css/html.css: >> >> ruby > rt { >> display: block; >> font-size: 60%; /* make slightly larger than 50% for better >> readability */ >> text-align: center; >> text-decoration: none; >> } >> >> However, when I change the font-size: attribute to, say, 50%, I don't see >> any difference in the size of the ruby text. (I even tried 25% just to be >> sure). Is this value being set somewhere else? >> >> Regards, >> Eric Mader >> >> _______________________________________________ >> webkit-dev mailing list >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> webkit-dev mailing list >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> webkit-dev mailing list >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> webkit-dev mailing list >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >> >> > > >
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