Does this work? http://plexode.com/eval3/#ht=%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22font-size%3A16px%3B%22%3E%0A16px-8px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E国%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eくに%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E象徴%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eしょうちょう%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E鬼門%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eきもん%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E方角%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eほうがく%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eを%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E凝視%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eぎょうし%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eする。%3Cbr%3E%0A16px-9px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E国%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A9px%3B%22%3Eくに%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E象徴%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A9px%3B%22%3Eしょうちょう%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E鬼門%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A9px%3B%22%3Eきもん%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E方角%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A9px%3B%22%3Eほうがく%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eを%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E凝視%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A9px%3B%22%3Eぎょうし%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eする。%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22font-size%3A14px%3B%22%3E%0A14px-7px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E国%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3Eくに%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E象徴%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3Eしょうちょう%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E鬼門%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3Eきもん%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E方角%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3Eほうがく%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eを%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E凝視%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A7px%3B%22%3Eぎょうし%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eする。%3Cbr%3E%0A14px-9px%3A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E国%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eくに%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E象徴%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eしょうちょう%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3E%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E鬼門%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eきもん%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eの%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E方角%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eほうがく%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eを%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3E凝視%3C%2Frb%3E%3Crt%20%20style%3D%22font-size%3A8px%3B%22%3Eぎょうし%3C%2Frt%3E%3C%2Fruby%3Eする。%3Cbr%3E%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A&ohh=1&ohj=1&jt=&ojh=1&ojj=1&ms=100&oth=0&otj=0&cex=1
According to "Choice of Size for Ruby Characters" in "Requirements for Japanese Text Layout": > (note 2) When the size of base characters is very small (for e.g. smaller > than seven points), ruby which is half the size, will be even more small and > illegible. In such cases where the size of base characters is very small, > ruby is not a suitable method of annotation. In those cases, consider other > annotation methods such as adding the reading in parenthesis immediately > after the base character. - kida On 2010/11/03, at 15:21, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > Hi Yasuko, > > Somehow your example isn't working. Could you copy & paste the HTML? > > - Ryosuke > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Yasuo Kida <k...@apple.com> wrote: > Thank you Ryosuke. This is a good demo. 5px is only barely legible and I > agree it is too small. 6px is legible but not fun to read. 7px looks > reasonable lower bound to me. > > 12pt text with 96dpi would translates to 16px, 50% ruby would be 8px. 10.5pt > which is often used by printed books is 14px, 50% ruby would be 7px. > > I do not think we should make the limit larger than 8px. The larger the ruby > size gets the more often you need to put extra gaps in the base text, which > makes the base text harder to read. See the example. > > - kida > > On 2010/11/03, at 14:01, David Hyatt wrote: > >> Yeah, that demo makes me think maybe 9px is fine after all. :) >> >> dave >> >> On Nov 3, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: >> >>> I think 5px is way too small. Maybe 7 or 8 at least but even those are >>> really hard to read in high-resolution displays. See demo. >>> >>> - Ryosuke >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, David Hyatt <hy...@apple.com> wrote: >>> That document also states: >>> >>> "When the size of base characters is very small (for e.g. smaller than >>> seven points), ruby which is half the size, will be even more small and >>> illegible. In such cases where the size of base characters is very small, >>> ruby is not a suitable method of annotation. In those cases, consider other >>> annotation methods such as adding the reading in parenthesis immediately >>> after the base character. >>> >>> It also sounds like we need to special case Ruby elements and allow their >>> font sizes to go down to about 5px instead of 9px. Anything lower, and >>> you're getting to the point where ruby was unsuitable (according to the >>> text above) anyway, since the base text was so small. >>> >>> I filed: >>> >>> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48942 >>> >>> dave >>> (hy...@apple.com) >>> >>> On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Yasuo Kida wrote: >>> >>>> In printing the standard is 50% of the base text. For larger point sizes >>>> like headings, the size of ruby is often smaller than 50%. >>>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-jlreq-20090604/#en-subheading2_3_3 >>>> >>>> So, how about we default to 50% and see how they come out. Glyphs designed >>>> for ruby are optimized for those small point sizes. It is possible on some >>>> screen resolutions we might want to make it a bit bigger but as screen >>>> resolution gets higher I think it makes more sense to stick to 50% >>>> following the standard in printing. >>>> >>>> - kida >>>> >>>> On 2010/11/03, at 12:05, Eric Mader wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:56 AM, David Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> WebKit enforces a minimum font size of 9px when no explicit font size is >>>>>> specified. This means that the font for <rt> cannot fall below 9px if >>>>>> it is relative to the user agent default. It may be that we want to >>>>>> consider modifying this minimum for ruby text and allow it to go below >>>>>> 9px though. I'm not sure. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, that's probably what I'm seeing. I'm using default font size, which >>>>> is probably 12pt. >>>>> >>>>>> If you make a really big Ruby (e.g., <ruby style="font-size:96px"> and >>>>>> then modify the font-size percentage on the <rt>, you should be able to >>>>>> see it take effect. >>>>>> >>>>>> We should probably just study real-world Japanese examples to see how >>>>>> small Ruby typically is allowed to get. If it can go below 9px and >>>>>> still be readable, we should perhaps consider allowing that. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure the detailed spec. addresses this issue. I'll review it. >>>>> >>>>>> In terms of excluding Ruby text from the overall line height, I don't >>>>>> think the font-size of the <rt> is particularly relevant. You just want >>>>>> to hack the Ruby to turn the ruby text into overflow rather than having >>>>>> it be part of the overall height of the inline-block. >>>>> >>>>> Of course. The website I was using has the line height set too tight for >>>>> correct display this way, and I just wanted to try a smaller size to see >>>>> if it looked better. OTOH, that site loads a style sheet that overrides >>>>> the ruby text font-size to 6pt, so I can't easily override it, and its' >>>>> probably displaying as 9pt anyhow. >>>>> >>>>>> dave >>>>>> (hy...@apple.com) >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Eric >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Eric Mader wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of my work on ruby text enhancements, I'm implementing the >>>>>>> option of not counting the height of the ruby text in the overall line >>>>>>> height. As part of this, I wanted to play with changing the size of the >>>>>>> ruby text. I'm trying to do this by changing the following lines in >>>>>>> <WebKit>/WebCore/css/html.css: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ruby > rt { >>>>>>> display: block; >>>>>>> font-size: 60%; /* make slightly larger than 50% for better >>>>>>> readability */ >>>>>>> text-align: center; >>>>>>> text-decoration: none; >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, when I change the font-size: attribute to, say, 50%, I don't >>>>>>> see any difference in the size of the ruby text. (I even tried 25% just >>>>>>> to be sure). Is this value being set somewhere else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Eric Mader >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> webkit-dev mailing list >>>>>>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >>>>>>> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> webkit-dev mailing list >>>>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >>>>> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> webkit-dev mailing list >>>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >>>> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> webkit-dev mailing list >>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org >>> http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev >>> >>> >> > >
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