Hoi,
I absolutely agree that Wikidata should be able to serve data in an
unformatted way. I absolutely disagree that there is no need for serving
data formatted in info boxes. Consider this use case:
Someone translated the texts associated with all the popes in Xhosa. There
are no articles on popes in the Xhosa Wikipedia but because of the
information and the info box in Wikidata it is possible to include
information in Xhosa on the not found page together with the interwiki
data. As this information is well presented, it makes sense for people to
volunteer and translate Wikidata texts, as this information is well
presented, people do select a language that provides information on the
subject.
Consequently being able to serve pure data does not imply that it should
not serve formatted data. Technically there is nothing stopping us from
doing both.
Thanks,
Gerard
On 15 June 2012 19:55, Marco Fleckinger <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hallo,
>
>
> On 2012-06-14 12:33, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> Technically there is nothing stopping Wikidata from hosting multiple
>> infoboxes on the same subject. The big thing about such infoboxes is
>> that their layout is the same for all subjects in the same category.
>> This does not mean that every one looks the same but it does mean they
>> follow a consistent pattern.
>>
>
> Providing multiple infobox templates for the same subject is a very good
> point, as it is not necessary to override (see below) on each single page
> of a language version.
>
>
>> When people talk about things like colours and stuff, it becomes highly
>> emotional but in the final analysis at this stage it is just more bike
>> shedding. It should be obvious that attributes like colour can be
>> overriden.. Given that info boxes will not be supported in the near
>> future ...
>>
>
> I agree that overriding attributes should be possible. The pages of
> different Wikimedia-projects sometimes look very different in colours and
> so on.
>
> Just think of "acceptable view":
>
> Overriding should be possible on two different positions:
> # Style-sheet:
> Example: The box may behave different if we use
> "Lista de correo electrónico" instead of
> "Mailing list" as a key word
> # Rendering:
> * Value-conversion: different units and languages.
> ** −459,67 °F = 0 °Ra = −218,52 °R = −273,15 °C = 0 K
> ** city(48°8′24″N 11°34′30″E) = "Munich" = "München" =
> "Múnich" = "Monaco di Baviera" ...
> * Precision:
> ** π shown as "3.1415926" with precision 7
> ** extended to subjects like locations of e.g. shopping
> malls more or less precision is wanted. For example
> the location of [[de:Europark_(**Einkaufszentrum)]]:
> *** "Salzburg (City), Austria" (for zh.wikipedia.org)
> *** "Salzburg, Austria" (for de.wikipedia.org)
> *** "Taxham, Salzburg" (for http://salzburg.com/wiki)
>
>
>> The notion that people should curate the info boxes locally is something
>> that I do not subscribe to. Not being able to agree on data and sources
>> is the same as not being able to reach a neutral point of view. This
>> does not mean that multiple sources may not agree but equally it does
>> not mean that different sources cannot be maintained from within Wikidata.
>>
>> Finally, when Wikidata provides data and info boxes, it does not mean
>> that any project is compelled to use it. As Wikidata matures, it will
>> become increasingly clear that it is not the best practice.
>> Thanks,
>>
>
> I'm not a server specialist and not an excellent developer but due to the
> fact that it should also be possible to use pure data outside of wikimedia,
> data providing and page rendering should be seperated strict from each
> other.
>
> Wikidata should therefore only be responsible for retrieving data with
> correct precision, value conversion and mode as requested. The rendering
> engine, not part of Wikidata, should be responsible for creating the
> HTML-code of the whole article including that of the infobox as well.
>
> GerardM
>>
>> On 14 June 2012 12:11, Gregor Hagedorn <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]**>> wrote:
>>
>> While I agree that it is desirable to support simple, preformatted
>> Infoboxes that can, with minimal effort be re-used in a large number
>> of language versions of Wikipedia, I strongly disagree with the demand
>> to make this the only choice.
>>
>> I think the present Wikidata approach to allow local Wikipedias to
>> customize their infoboxes by accessing wikidata properties
>> property-by-property is the right path.
>>
>> The large Wikipedias with many editors have invested considerable
>> creative energy into making quite a large number of infoboxes
>> elaborate information containers. That includes formatting, images and
>> hand-crafted links in both the "field name" and the "field value"
>> side. Some values are expressed through svg graphics, other values
>> expressed through background color coding, etc.
>>
>> Limiting the usability of Wikidata to plain vanilla infox boxes could
>> cause considerable resistance in these communities. And although small
>> Wikipedia will profit a lot from Wikidata, without the engagement of
>> editors from the large Wikipedias into curating Wikidata content, the
>> increased synergies will not happen.
>>
>> Another issue is that (I believe that) Wikidata does not have a notion
>> of ordering properties. Correct? This is no issue for the present
>> Wikidata approach because infoboxes remain curated in each local
>> Wikipedia. However, in a centralized "one size fits all" approach,
>> replacing existing infoboxes where information is presented in a
>> logical order with an alphabetical property order would create huge
>> resistance (and would be a complex issue that Wikidata would have to
>> deal with, allowing property ordering and filtering).
>>
>> I believe that Wikidata correctly aims to provide a smooth transition
>> path, where it is possible to obtain only part of an infobox from
>> wikidata and inject wikidata content into existing infobox layouts.
>>
>> That said: I would encourage a third party contributor to try to
>> create a default Wikidata infobox generator in a way (extension
>> installable in multiple Wikipedias) that enables a wikipedia to
>> autocreate a good looking, plain vanilla infobox with minimal effort.
>>
>> Gregor
>>
>> Marco
>
>
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