Leigh,

I get your point. And I do agree with you that if you don't facilitate
mash-up practices you reduce connections, and therefore the network
becomes smaller and restrained... openness is the way... I guess these
subtleties are why so much discussion occurs regarding the meaning of
open...

I also get your point about items that connect nodes vs. being the
nodes themselves. All this said I would think that Lawrence Lessig at
one point would have been considered a node evangelizing the benefits
of a creative commons, through time the CC has become a part of the
conduit. Like flickr, it was at one time a small group hacking
together a photo sharing site (there were a group). Linux at one time
was an individual project... So could it be that all nodes or conduit
technologies start as individuals or small groups... I seek an example
where a network just appeared without it first being started by a
small group or individual...

Cheers, Peter

On Nov 3, 12:00 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Interesting Peter, I hadn't considered that list as nodes in a network. I
> suppose they are in some ways, but I have always considered them as the
> things that connect the real nodes - the platforms that facilitate
> communication between nodes.
>
> Take your K12 project on WikiEd. I see that as a node or nodes, both
> embodied in the content, and in you as the personal point of contact. K12
> may someday connect with a similar or complimentary project on Wikispaces..
> with a particular blog post.. a Youtube video.. another individual who works
> on her own space, but through certain technologies - feeds into K12... etc.
> This same networking of information and people can happen inside a single
> platform such as Wikieducator - but I would question its capacities if it
> where only inside Wikied.
>
> Things that make the networked "mission" succeed: Using digital formats
> published openly online. Use of CC By to unrestrict reuse and sampling (I
> suspect copyright will be a thing of the past in the not too distant future,
> if Google's approach to it is anything to go by).
>
> Trappings that can undo the flexibility of a network: Prescribing certain
> practices - such as CC By, Open Format Standards or Open Source Software (as
> much as I appreciate their worth, the loss in potential connections is too
> great if we insist on these too much). Not facilitating "mashup" practices
> (embedding 3rd party media). Centralising services. Policies that police,
> and so on.
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Leigh,
> > Most Excellent. I agree its time for those who have been following
> > this thread to watch (or re-watch) the Downes video;
> >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4126240905912531540
> > And I would agree I see a GROUP entrenching itself within WE. Not that
> > this is a bad thing, it just is. Though, I do believe a network
> > approach will have greater success in meeting the WE mission. WE can
> > only hope that the council also sees it this way, or maybe they will
> > see having a group approach is best for meeting the challenges of the
> > WE mission. I think that encouraging a NETWORK of educators to utilize
> > the WE infrastructure, and then everyone (WE Council, Etc...) gets out
> > of the way is the best (re: like WIkiSpaces). In relation to the group
> > vs. network and the "ills" within a group (control, resources, etc...)
> > It makes me wonder if this is how Minhaaj sees profiteering?
>
> > A few question that come from all this; Can a resource node on the
> > network be started by a network? Or have all resource nodes grown out
> > of the efforts of an individual or small group? If you look at the
> > current set or resource nodes, most of them grew from the efforts of
> > an individual or small group. Maybe this is the natural lifecycle of a
> > network node. And the challenge for any node is to transition from
> > starting as a group, letting go, and becoming a network node...
>
> > (Examples of resource nodes starting from individuals or small groups
> > would be; Skype, OCW, CCK08, Wikipedia, Wikispaces, Delicious, Flickr,
> > CC...) So what do you think, do all network nodes start out as small
> > groups?
>
> > As another Canadian, Thank-you...I certainly hope this thread plants
> > some seeds and allows this important discussion to become a part of
> > the WE consciousness.
>
> > Sincerely, Peter
>
> > On Nov 3, 1:06 am, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Peter, I sense you have it. That makes me happy :)
>
> > > I am just back from a walk in the mountains, and struggle to find the
> > > motivation to explain this any more. I'm satisfied that I've at least
> > > communicated my thoughts to Peter, and hope he'll carry the ball further.
> > I
> > > will recommend for a third time to watch Downes video explaining the
> > tension
> > > between groups and networks, and reflect on the controlling influences
> > that
> > > groups have on us individually - especially Wikieducator. Sorry if you
> > all
> > > have watched it - I just see little evidence of it.
>
> > > Legs so sore I can barely keep the laptop on my lap! Face burnt, mouth
> > dry,
> > > boots wet. I'll sleep well tonight!
>
> > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Derek Chirnside
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> > > > Well well.  Saturday, 6.01am here, just off to the Coast with two
> > bands,
> > > > one classic rock and one progressive rock to play 7 hours at the Empire
> > > > Hotel during the 6,000 people Ross Fireworks Festival, hay fever
> > disenhanced
> > > > (severely today), and very very tired after the decision this week in
> > the
> > > > Moodle trial here and the huge amount of work leading up to this.
>
> > > > Then this post comes.  The first words where I think I really can
> > engage
> > > > wkith this fascinating discussion, possibly at the risk of missing the
> > > > point, but I do have some things to say.
> > > > I'm based at an unusual institution.  They will give us the OK to start
> > of
> > > > UCTL.canterbury.ac.nz as a little fun thing, to give away all the work
> > > > from one of my recent projects, yet quibble over pixel widths on
> > learning
> > > > pages with branding, and force a 12 month process when 2 weeks would
> > really
> > > > be enough to make a decision.  etc.  A place of contradictions where I
> > am a
> > > > minion.  Some things (only some things) are not the best, but I'm
> > finding
> > > > (vaguely)a place there.
>
> > > > I'm a dabbler in WE.  In and out like a yo yo - committed to OER but
> > like
> > > > some other software develiopers, mistaking a clear view of the goal
> > with the
> > > > closeness of it.  Some of your comments probably resonate about why I
> > find
> > > > it hard at times in the WE OER environment.
>
> > > > BUT: I can't post now more, got to pack trailors etc, and I'll be away
> > from
> > > > any internet for 36 hours.
> > > > The crunch came three weeks ago.  I was off to do a reccee for the Ross
> > > > trip to the Coast.  At 27 hours notice I got a call to run 2 Podcasting
> > > > workshops on the coast.  I was already going, so hey, I thought, lets
> > do it.
> > > > Where to put it was my query?  WE was obvious.  Checked out the
> > podcasting
> > > > stuff.  Tried to decide what to do.  Fiddle with it?  Copy and adapt
> > it?
> > > > Work with Podcasting to create Derek's Podcasting.  I had no time to do
> > it
> > > > this way.  How to name my pages?  How to cluster them?  How much to
> > > > contextualise?  Who owns the page 'podcasting workshop' and can I
> > fiddle
> > > > with it? Should I start one as well?
>
> > > > This is a trivial context I know, but they made me face a few of these
> > > > questions you are debating here.
>
> > > > OK. Unfinished.
> > > > But I have broken the ice.  I'll be back.
> > > > If the discussion has not moved on two much I'll post tomorrow
> > afternoon.
> > > > I may post even if it has.  :-)
>
> > > > -Derek
>
> > > > 2008/10/31 Alex P. Real <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > > >  Hi Leigh,
>
> > > >> Beautiful response, I really appreciate it <smile>.  The scenario
> > > >> product/maintainer/tradeoff is recurrent in many realms, not just
> > software.
> > > >> I can only agree to your reading on collaborative editing, the main
> > reason
> > > >> why I've refrained from contributing contents, to see how things work
> > and
> > > >> avoid potential uneasiness among  page creators. I find more
> > productive
> > > >> adding to something going on than starting from scratch. And as the
> > prime
> > > >> focus is the Commonwealth  it seemed coherent to leave the initiative
> > to
> > > >> intended beneficiaries, maybe a bias acquired in development projects.
> > I
> > > >> know I can start my own page, node,  but seemed out of place, so
> > focused on
> > > >> Collage G-group until it fulfilled its role in COL's agenda. No
> > criticism,
> > > >> right?
>
> > > >> Re TQF I got involved replying to an email by Anil re content
> > development
> > > >> and read the full thread with keen interest, same as  the Wikipedia
> > entry.
> > > >> With such a diverse base of educators WE seems ideal to conduct some
> > > >> research re existing frameworks, limitations, alternatives, etc. to
> > > >> contribute to TQF or whatever and try minimize the dangers you rightly
> > > >> perceive, and take into account country/cultural specificities usually
> > set
> > > >> aside; or as some sort of repository.  But again, not for me to tell.
> >   I'll
> > > >> start my own stuff to pursue my interests, otherwise I'll end
> > quitting.
>
> > > >> I can only guess what you mean  by "grouped thinking"  (my ignorance
> > re WE
> > > >> subtleties), keep fighting for  your beliefs. I may not agree with you
> > 100%
> > > >>  which is  healthy and enriching, but it doesn't mean I don't
> > > >> follow/like/admire what you do.
>
> > > >> Cheers,
>
> > > >> Alex
>
> > > >> *De:* [email protected] [mailto:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> *En nombre de *Leigh Blackall
> > > >> *Enviado el:* jueves, 30 de octubre de 2008 22:46
> > > >> *Para:* [email protected]
> > > >> *Asunto:* [WikiEducator] Re: !!RE: [WikiEducator] Re: Another
> > Milestone
>
> > > >> Alex said:
>
> > > >> Sorry if pushy here but have you
> > > >> considered your approach could be perceived as an imposition itself?
> > > >> Criticism is great, and I mean it, but what alternatives do you
> > suggest?
> > > >> Ever thought TQF could ease many lives, e.g. qual recognition abroad,
> > > >> which
> > > >> can be a real nightmare?
>
> > > >> Yes, of course Alex, I have and do consider the question - often
> > > >> reflecting on the many years I have spent encouraging (to put it
> > lightly)
> > > >> teachers to use socially networked media, and arguing for a specific
> > type of
> > > >> change, namely individual capability and independence, and networked
> > > >> practice. The question I ask myself is how much my methods align with
> > > >> individuality, and undermine those
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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