I was just browsing an old course and came across the good old video The Machine is Using Us <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmP4nk0EOE>. Its been a while since I watched this, but re watching it shows it to be still true and useful in terms of perspective relating to decentralised, distributed, networked and "mashable" services. Take note of the list of things that are suggested as needing a rethink. Can we honestly say we are doing anything new in Wikieducator? Are we even rethinking these things?
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, but networks are organic and fluid, focus ebbs and flows. so > sometimes putting energy into keeping something relevant and strong is > like paddling a canoe up stream. Turn the damn thing around, let the > node die... Don't forget the long tail is forever... So 20 years from > now any resource could again become popular or through time this > thread could be referenced many times... ;) > > On Nov 3, 12:43 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "In the beginning there was the word..." :) > > > > In the begining there was the Internet, and the ability for people to > > publish on it and express themselves. As epxressive individuals they were > > small nodes, connected by way of the Internet. When their connections to > > other nodes become stronger, they came closer together. Over time (and > all > > the right agreements) they become close in fact they were > indistinguishable > > from one another. Indivdually they grouped to form a bigger node, but it > is > > now slightly more difficult for them to connect to new nodes because more > of > > their energy is spent refering to each other and keeping their bigger > node > > connected and strong. They are starting to loose the benefit of being in > a > > long tail <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail>. > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Leigh, > > > > > I get your point. And I do agree with you that if you don't facilitate > > > mash-up practices you reduce connections, and therefore the network > > > becomes smaller and restrained... openness is the way... I guess these > > > subtleties are why so much discussion occurs regarding the meaning of > > > open... > > > > > I also get your point about items that connect nodes vs. being the > > > nodes themselves. All this said I would think that Lawrence Lessig at > > > one point would have been considered a node evangelizing the benefits > > > of a creative commons, through time the CC has become a part of the > > > conduit. Like flickr, it was at one time a small group hacking > > > together a photo sharing site (there were a group). Linux at one time > > > was an individual project... So could it be that all nodes or conduit > > > technologies start as individuals or small groups... I seek an example > > > where a network just appeared without it first being started by a > > > small group or individual... > > > > > Cheers, Peter > > > > > On Nov 3, 12:00 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Interesting Peter, I hadn't considered that list as nodes in a > network. I > > > > suppose they are in some ways, but I have always considered them as > the > > > > things that connect the real nodes - the platforms that facilitate > > > > communication between nodes. > > > > > > Take your K12 project on WikiEd. I see that as a node or nodes, both > > > > embodied in the content, and in you as the personal point of contact. > K12 > > > > may someday connect with a similar or complimentary project on > > > Wikispaces.. > > > > with a particular blog post.. a Youtube video.. another individual > who > > > works > > > > on her own space, but through certain technologies - feeds into > K12... > > > etc. > > > > This same networking of information and people can happen inside a > single > > > > platform such as Wikieducator - but I would question its capacities > if it > > > > where only inside Wikied. > > > > > > Things that make the networked "mission" succeed: Using digital > formats > > > > published openly online. Use of CC By to unrestrict reuse and > sampling (I > > > > suspect copyright will be a thing of the past in the not too distant > > > future, > > > > if Google's approach to it is anything to go by). > > > > > > Trappings that can undo the flexibility of a network: Prescribing > certain > > > > practices - such as CC By, Open Format Standards or Open Source > Software > > > (as > > > > much as I appreciate their worth, the loss in potential connections > is > > > too > > > > great if we insist on these too much). Not facilitating "mashup" > > > practices > > > > (embedding 3rd party media). Centralising services. Policies that > police, > > > > and so on. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Leigh, > > > > > Most Excellent. I agree its time for those who have been following > > > > > this thread to watch (or re-watch) the Downes video; > > > > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4126240905912531540 > > > > > And I would agree I see a GROUP entrenching itself within WE. Not > that > > > > > this is a bad thing, it just is. Though, I do believe a network > > > > > approach will have greater success in meeting the WE mission. WE > can > > > > > only hope that the council also sees it this way, or maybe they > will > > > > > see having a group approach is best for meeting the challenges of > the > > > > > WE mission. I think that encouraging a NETWORK of educators to > utilize > > > > > the WE infrastructure, and then everyone (WE Council, Etc...) gets > out > > > > > of the way is the best (re: like WIkiSpaces). In relation to the > group > > > > > vs. network and the "ills" within a group (control, resources, > etc...) > > > > > It makes me wonder if this is how Minhaaj sees profiteering? > > > > > > > A few question that come from all this; Can a resource node on the > > > > > network be started by a network? Or have all resource nodes grown > out > > > > > of the efforts of an individual or small group? If you look at the > > > > > current set or resource nodes, most of them grew from the efforts > of > > > > > an individual or small group. Maybe this is the natural lifecycle > of a > > > > > network node. And the challenge for any node is to transition from > > > > > starting as a group, letting go, and becoming a network node... > > > > > > > (Examples of resource nodes starting from individuals or small > groups > > > > > would be; Skype, OCW, CCK08, Wikipedia, Wikispaces, Delicious, > Flickr, > > > > > CC...) So what do you think, do all network nodes start out as > small > > > > > groups? > > > > > > > As another Canadian, Thank-you...I certainly hope this thread > plants > > > > > some seeds and allows this important discussion to become a part of > > > > > the WE consciousness. > > > > > > > Sincerely, Peter > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 1:06 am, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Peter, I sense you have it. That makes me happy :) > > > > > > > > I am just back from a walk in the mountains, and struggle to find > the > > > > > > motivation to explain this any more. I'm satisfied that I've at > least > > > > > > communicated my thoughts to Peter, and hope he'll carry the ball > > > further. > > > > > I > > > > > > will recommend for a third time to watch Downes video explaining > the > > > > > tension > > > > > > between groups and networks, and reflect on the controlling > > > influences > > > > > that > > > > > > groups have on us individually - especially Wikieducator. Sorry > if > > > you > > > > > all > > > > > > have watched it - I just see little evidence of it. > > > > > > > > Legs so sore I can barely keep the laptop on my lap! Face burnt, > > > mouth > > > > > dry, > > > > > > boots wet. I'll sleep well tonight! > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Derek Chirnside > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well well. Saturday, 6.01am here, just off to the Coast with > two > > > > > bands, > > > > > > > one classic rock and one progressive rock to play 7 hours at > the > > > Empire > > > > > > > Hotel during the 6,000 people Ross Fireworks Festival, hay > fever > > > > > disenhanced > > > > > > > (severely today), and very very tired after the decision this > week > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > Moodle trial here and the huge amount of work leading up to > this. > > > > > > > > > Then this post comes. The first words where I think I really > can > > > > > engage > > > > > > > wkith this fascinating discussion, possibly at the risk of > missing > > > the > > > > > > > point, but I do have some things to say. > > > > > > > I'm based at an unusual institution. They will give us the OK > to > > > start > > > > > of > > > > > > > UCTL.canterbury.ac.nz as a little fun thing, to give away all > the > > > work > > > > > > > from one of my recent projects, yet quibble over pixel widths > on > > > > > learning > > > > > > > pages with branding, and force a 12 month process when 2 weeks > > > would > > > > > really > > > > > > > be enough to make a decision. etc. A place of contradictions > > > where I > > > > > am a > > > > > > > minion. Some things (only some things) are not the best, but > I'm > > > > > finding > > > > > > > (vaguely)a place there. > > > > > > > > > I'm a dabbler in WE. In and out like a yo yo - committed to > OER > > > but > > > > > like > > > > > > > some other software develiopers, mistaking a clear view of the > goal > > > > > with the > > > > > > > closeness of it. Some of your comments probably resonate about > why > > > I > > > > > find > > > > > > > it hard at times in the WE OER environment. > > > > > > > > > BUT: I can't post now more, got to pack trailors etc, and I'll > be > > > away > > > > > from > > > > > > > any internet for 36 hours. > > > > > > > The crunch came three weeks ago. I was off to do a reccee for > the > > > Ross > > > > > > > trip to the Coast. At 27 hours notice I got a call to run 2 > > > Podcasting > > > > > > > workshops on the coast. I was already going, so hey, I > thought, > > > lets > > > > > do it. > > > > > > > Where to put it was my query? WE was obvious. Checked out the > > > > > podcasting > > > > > > > stuff. Tried to decide what to do. Fiddle with it? Copy and > > > adapt > > > > > it? > > > > > > > Work with Podcasting to create Derek's Podcasting. I had no > time > > > to do > > > > > it > > > > > > > this way. How to name my pages? How to cluster them? How > much to > > > > > > > contextualise? Who owns the page 'podcasting workshop' and can > I > > > > > fiddle > > > > > > > with it? Should I start one as well? > > > > > > > > > This is a trivial context I know, but they made me face a few > of > > > these > > > > > > > questions you are debating here. > > > > > > > > > OK. Unfinished. > > > > > > > But I have broken the ice. I'll be back. > > > > > > > If the discussion has not moved on two much I'll post tomorrow > > > > > afternoon. > > > > > > > I may post even if it has. :-) > > > > > > > > > -Derek > > > > > > > > > 2008/10/31 Alex P. Real <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > > > > > >> Beautiful response, I really appreciate it <smile>. The > scenario > > > > > > >> product/maintainer/tradeoff is recurrent in many realms, not > just > > > > > software. > > > > > > >> I can only agree to your reading on collaborative editing, the > > > main > > > > > reason > > > > > > >> why I've refrained from contributing contents, to see how > things > > > work > > > > > and > > > > > > >> avoid potential uneasiness > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > > -- -- Leigh Blackall +64(0)21736539 skype - leigh_blackall SL - Leroy Goalpost http://learnonline.wordpress.com http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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