On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:27, Jan Visser <[email protected]> wrote: > On the other hand, Edward, while you apparently fail to see the connection > between Wayne's two posts, I had no problem seeing how they are related to > each other and the conversation that had been going on.
So you could explain the matter to me, then? > While I agree with the points you made in your first post concerning this > subject, I find it unfortunate that the tone you increasingly choose for > this dialogue is one of confrontation rather than of collaborative > exploration of a complex area of concern. It is surely unhelpful in such a > situation to demand that participants in the conversation declare upfront > which side they are on as if 'yes' or 'no' are the only possible > alternatives. Not what I did. > A friend theoretical physicist at the CNRS in Paris, Basarab > Nicolescu, once called this the "unfathomable pornography of binary > thinking." You think I'm doing it to you, and I think you're doing it to me. > Also, as another friend recently pointed out to me and a couple of other > colleagues in a discussion about ‘building the scientific mind’, there is a > huge difference between ‘asking a question’ and ‘having a question.’ The > fact that you asked a question does not necessarily mean that you should be > given an answer. Such a statement with no further explanation is entirely unhelpful. > I also find it unfortunate that you seem to equate denial and skepticism. I don't. The Global Warming Deniers/"Climate Change" skeptics do, by denying that they are denying. > Skepticism connotes thoughtfulness, exploration, consideration. Denial is > close to the opposite of these notions. Exactly. Scientists are skeptics. They test every experimental result and theory rigorously. Pseudoscientists are deniers of data, theories, competence, and motives. Everything in science is to them conspiracy. Why would scientists conspire? I have never heard a plausible theory of why, nor of how. Conspiracy at that level is hard. Some joker is bound to leak the plan. But those are not the only two choices. There are the innocent ignorant and the willfully ignorant as well. The Talmud distinguishes He who knows not; and knows not that he knows not is a fool, shun him. He who knows not; and knows that he knows not is a child, teach him. He who knows; and knows not that he knows is asleep, wake him. He who knows; and know that he knows is wise, follow him. but there are further distinctions to be made. > I would only hope that all who > participate in this dialogue, whatever position they may find themselves > comfortable with at a particular moment, are skeptics. > More importantly, this dialogue was not meant to be about the science and > politics of climate change. Rather, the way Phil voiced it initially, it was > meant to be about how an educational community that is dedicated to > providing open educational resources, such as WE, should deal with issues > around which there is controversy. I propose we bring the discussion back to > that issue or otherwise consider it closed for now for the simple reason > that we don’t seem to advance. We can always take it up later again. Yes, indeed. We do need to address how a community should address such issues, and not by putting them aside. It is too timorous to reject the possibility that a discussion can make progress and illuminate the larger question before it has even been joined seriously. > Jan > > > > -- > > Jan Visser, Ph.D. > > President & Sr. Researcher, Learning Development Institute > > E-mail: [email protected] > > Check out: http://www.learndev.org and http://www.facebook.com/learndev > > Blog: http://jvisser-ldi.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 01:08, Wayne Mackintosh > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Edward, > >> > >> 2009/11/29 Edward Cherlin wrote: > >>> > >>> Wayne, I fear that you don't know what you are talking about. > >> > >> My concern relates to assumptions you are making about what members of >> this > >> list know or do not know. > > > > I fail to see any connection between what you said, and what you now > > say you meant. Anyway, what assumptions do you assume I am making? > > > > You neither answered nor even acknowledged my question. > > > > "Are you also a global warming denier/"skeptic"? Or just grotesquely > > politically correct, treating all points of view as equally to be > > respected? If it's something else, please tell us what." > > > >> In our WikiEducator community we play the ball -- > >> not the person. We treat people with mutual respect, recognising our >> diverse > >> cultures. > >> > >> My post had nothing to do with global warming per se, but rather education > >> in a broader context and what our community is about. This is the way we > >> play the game in WikiEducator -- please respect our community values and >> how > >> we interact with each other -- we have welcomed your membership with open > >> arms respecting that everyone has value to contribute to education as a > >> social good. > >> > >> There is a lot I don't know -- but I'm learning everyday. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Wayne > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Wayne Mackintosh, Ph.D. > >> Director, > >> International Centre for Open Education, > >> Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. > >> Board of Directors, OER Foundation. > >> Founder and Community Council Member, Wikieducator, www.wikieducator.org > >> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 > >> User Page: http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg > >> Skype: WGMNZ1 > >> Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "WikiEducator" group. > >> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > >> To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > > -- > > Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin > > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > > http://www.earthtreasury.org/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]
