Come on Harel, you are a true Wikipedian; you must have seen REAL yelling in your time before! :)
m. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Harel Cain <[email protected]> wrote: > You're free to go on, I was just feeling it was becoming less > constructive and rather uncivilized, with all that yelling going on. > > > Harel > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Harel and Moushira, > > > > why the rush on closing this thread?!! :) Let us give time and space for > a > > civilized and purposeful dialogue and deliberation to come to fruition > and > > realization! > > -- > > Maysara > > "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment" _Rene > Descartes > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Yohai, > >> I thought it was pretty clear that this has nothing to do with me > >> personally. But just to emphasize, and not to yell or anything like > this: > >> THIS DISCUSSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME PERSONALLY! > >> Most appreciatively, > >> -- > >> Maysara > >> "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment." _Rene > >> Descartes > >> > >> > >> 2010/8/12 Yohai Edery <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> Hello Maysara and all, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I feel like I have to send an e-mail again regarding what you wrote > below > >>> as there is a lot of miss information in what you wrote. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Firstly, let's put things on the table, as an Egyptian you are not > >>> feeling good with coming to Israel as it would seem to your friends > back > >>> home like you are trying to "normalize" relations with Israel. Although > >>> there are almost 30 years of peace between our countries, Egypt and > >>> Egyptians have been always against normalizing relation with Israel and > in > >>> fact there is a lot of incitement towards Israel and Jews in general in > >>> Egyptian media, books, cultural events and so. Israeli cultural > products > >>> (movies, music, theater and such) were band from participation in > festival > >>> in Egypt even international ones held in Egypt. The situation with > Jordan is > >>> not better…unfortunately. On the meantime, Israel has welcomed movies, > music > >>> and artists from Egypt and Jordan that have participated in festivals > and > >>> events in Israel. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I can guarantee that people from all over the world will have no > problem > >>> coming to the event in Israel. Israeli authorities will allow everyone > from > >>> everywhere to come to Wikimania providing he/she has not been engaged > in > >>> terrorist activities…which I believe is not the case for the > participants of > >>> our event….I doubt Al Qaida, Hammas and Hezbollah care about Wikipedia. > I > >>> can tell you from past experience that people from Libya and Lebanon > came to > >>> conferences in Israel without any trouble. The problem maybe with their > own > >>> home government….but that, unfortunately, we can't control. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Again, accusation bout maltreatment and confiscation of belongings are > >>> NONSENCE I want to remind you that Israel is a full functioning > democracy!!! > >>> We DO NOT do things against the law and will not confiscate anything > from > >>> anyone unless there is a solid reason. Again, I have been involved with > tens > >>> of conferences in Israel and had many friends from all over the world > coming > >>> to Israel, none of them suffered from any of those things you > maintained. I > >>> would like to kindly ask you to stop with those accusations. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Regarding arriving to Israel from Cairo, again, you don’t have to do > that > >>> by bus or car only like you said….you can easily fly to Ben gurion > >>> international airport in Tel Aviv on a non-stop flight from Cairo with > El-Al > >>> Israeli airline or Air Sinai (part of Air Egypt). If you need help with > >>> making the reservations, I would love to help…. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I think that change comes from people and not for the leaders….I would > >>> expect you to see this event as a great opportunity to start real > dialogue > >>> between people in the Mideast and use such an important source of > >>> information like Wikipedia to a good use as a tool to bring people > together, > >>> break stigmas and fight prejudice. The only way we can live together in > >>> peace is if we will get to know each other….I have visited Egypt and > Jordan > >>> as well as the Palestinian territories…I know a lot about the Arab > >>> world…what do you know about me? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hopping to show you all the real face of Israel when you are hear... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Good night from Haifa, Israel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yohai Edery > >>> > >>> יוחאי אדרי > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> E-mail: [email protected] > >>> P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maysara > Omar > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM > >>> > >>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) > >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next > >>> conference in Haifa, Israel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hello to All :) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 1) Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. I > would > >>> not have brought this issue had i not thought, (along with many others > by > >>> the way who are unfortunately not here to express themselves about > this) > >>> that whatever jury took that decision has fallen into a manifest error, > that > >>> justifies a look back and reconsideration, rather than be ignored, and > >>> regardless of whether this will change things or not. The issue needs > to be > >>> addressed, because it is very important. It is a fact, that > participants > >>> from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and possibly other countries, > will > >>> never have the chance to attend the next wikimania conference should it > be > >>> held in Israel. Further, other participants from other countries, > >>> particularly "Arab" countries whose citizens do not usually go to > Israel for > >>> any purpose, and this applies to both Jordan and Egypt with whom Israel > is > >>> in diplomatically fine terms, will find many troubles from both the > Israeli > >>> and their own governments. This is no speculation, there are hundreds > of > >>> accounts on the internet of maltreatment and confiscation of belongings > of > >>> passengers for all sorts of reasons by Israeli officials at entry/exit > >>> points. Questions asked in such aggressive tonality and attitude > regarding > >>> the passengers' views and opinion of Israel and the conflict in the > middle > >>> east. Please ask the ministry of foreign affairs, whether they will let > some > >>> attendees in, if they answered these questions as they do believe > rather > >>> than fake a friendly answer! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their results > >>> were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about > the > >>> "impossibility" of reconsidering the validity of the decision made by > the > >>> jury, as though it is a sanctified or infallible one! Somehow it seems > that > >>> so far no one apart from myself, who could get into Israel only > following a > >>> car or bus ride of 8 hours from my very home in Cairo, took the time to > >>> think of the position of those who will never be permitted into Israel, > or > >>> who will avoid doing so because Israel is in fact a problematic > destination > >>> for them. And regardless of whether any of this is fair or not, we > currently > >>> do have a realistic situation that is laden with injustice and great > >>> potential of practical disorder, which somehow was not raised during > the > >>> decision making process, although it is no secret or news! This > suggests > >>> that non of those who will be negatively effected by the decision, were > >>> present when the process of deciding was ongoing. One of the benefits > of > >>> this discussion then, is perhaps to give more attention to such matters > as > >>> representativeness, inclusive deliberation, and outreach, in further > such > >>> processes of wikimania biding and decision making. Perhaps from now on, > we > >>> should make more effort in reaching out for, you know, "all the people > on > >>> Earth" who might want to come to wikimania with their experiences, etc. > >>> Unfortunately I was not there then, and maybe i won't be able to be > there > >>> later, but I do not believe that it is too late to bring this issue > now, and > >>> to attempt to correct what is wrong even by those who, understandably, > love > >>> their own country and would have loved to see it hosting such a > wonderful > >>> event. It is for a clean, freeing, progressive, and Humanistic > experience > >>> and social process that we commit ourselves; the passing-by moments in > this > >>> experience will be destructive if they are absorbed only in the > passing-by > >>> moment! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without > >>> having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to > smoothen > >>> the passage of those who participate together everyday in creating and > >>> making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future. > This is > >>> the position that I have chosen for myself, rather than the one that > you ask > >>> me to adopt, that is, to suggest solutions to numberless problems and > to an > >>> erroneous and unfair condition and situation. And now I ask you, what > is > >>> YOUR position? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> :) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Maysara > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimania-l mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >>> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimania-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > > > > > > > -- > Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >
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