It's a comforting thought to know that Wikipedians like to blabber and yell and fight, whatever their language or religion or background... :-)
Harel On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> wrote: > Come on Harel, you are a true Wikipedian; you must have seen REAL yelling in > your time before! :) > > m. > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Harel Cain <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You're free to go on, I was just feeling it was becoming less >> constructive and rather uncivilized, with all that yelling going on. >> >> >> Harel >> >> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Harel and Moushira, >> > >> > why the rush on closing this thread?!! :) Let us give time and space for >> > a >> > civilized and purposeful dialogue and deliberation to come to fruition >> > and >> > realization! >> > -- >> > Maysara >> > "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment" _Rene >> > Descartes >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Yohai, >> >> I thought it was pretty clear that this has nothing to do with me >> >> personally. But just to emphasize, and not to yell or anything like >> >> this: >> >> THIS DISCUSSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME PERSONALLY! >> >> Most appreciatively, >> >> -- >> >> Maysara >> >> "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment." _Rene >> >> Descartes >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/8/12 Yohai Edery <[email protected]> >> >>> >> >>> Hello Maysara and all, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I feel like I have to send an e-mail again regarding what you wrote >> >>> below >> >>> as there is a lot of miss information in what you wrote. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Firstly, let's put things on the table, as an Egyptian you are not >> >>> feeling good with coming to Israel as it would seem to your friends >> >>> back >> >>> home like you are trying to "normalize" relations with Israel. >> >>> Although >> >>> there are almost 30 years of peace between our countries, Egypt and >> >>> Egyptians have been always against normalizing relation with Israel >> >>> and in >> >>> fact there is a lot of incitement towards Israel and Jews in general >> >>> in >> >>> Egyptian media, books, cultural events and so. Israeli cultural >> >>> products >> >>> (movies, music, theater and such) were band from participation in >> >>> festival >> >>> in Egypt even international ones held in Egypt. The situation with >> >>> Jordan is >> >>> not better…unfortunately. On the meantime, Israel has welcomed movies, >> >>> music >> >>> and artists from Egypt and Jordan that have participated in festivals >> >>> and >> >>> events in Israel. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I can guarantee that people from all over the world will have no >> >>> problem >> >>> coming to the event in Israel. Israeli authorities will allow everyone >> >>> from >> >>> everywhere to come to Wikimania providing he/she has not been engaged >> >>> in >> >>> terrorist activities…which I believe is not the case for the >> >>> participants of >> >>> our event….I doubt Al Qaida, Hammas and Hezbollah care about >> >>> Wikipedia. I >> >>> can tell you from past experience that people from Libya and Lebanon >> >>> came to >> >>> conferences in Israel without any trouble. The problem maybe with >> >>> their own >> >>> home government….but that, unfortunately, we can't control. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Again, accusation bout maltreatment and confiscation of belongings are >> >>> NONSENCE I want to remind you that Israel is a full functioning >> >>> democracy!!! >> >>> We DO NOT do things against the law and will not confiscate anything >> >>> from >> >>> anyone unless there is a solid reason. Again, I have been involved >> >>> with tens >> >>> of conferences in Israel and had many friends from all over the world >> >>> coming >> >>> to Israel, none of them suffered from any of those things you >> >>> maintained. I >> >>> would like to kindly ask you to stop with those accusations. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Regarding arriving to Israel from Cairo, again, you don’t have to do >> >>> that >> >>> by bus or car only like you said….you can easily fly to Ben gurion >> >>> international airport in Tel Aviv on a non-stop flight from Cairo with >> >>> El-Al >> >>> Israeli airline or Air Sinai (part of Air Egypt). If you need help >> >>> with >> >>> making the reservations, I would love to help…. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I think that change comes from people and not for the leaders….I would >> >>> expect you to see this event as a great opportunity to start real >> >>> dialogue >> >>> between people in the Mideast and use such an important source of >> >>> information like Wikipedia to a good use as a tool to bring people >> >>> together, >> >>> break stigmas and fight prejudice. The only way we can live together >> >>> in >> >>> peace is if we will get to know each other….I have visited Egypt and >> >>> Jordan >> >>> as well as the Palestinian territories…I know a lot about the Arab >> >>> world…what do you know about me? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hopping to show you all the real face of Israel when you are hear... >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Good night from Haifa, Israel >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Yohai Edery >> >>> >> >>> יוחאי אדרי >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> E-mail: [email protected] >> >>> P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> From: [email protected] >> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maysara >> >>> Omar >> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM >> >>> >> >>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) >> >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next >> >>> conference in Haifa, Israel >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hello to All :) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 1) Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. I >> >>> would >> >>> not have brought this issue had i not thought, (along with many others >> >>> by >> >>> the way who are unfortunately not here to express themselves about >> >>> this) >> >>> that whatever jury took that decision has fallen into a manifest >> >>> error, that >> >>> justifies a look back and reconsideration, rather than be ignored, and >> >>> regardless of whether this will change things or not. The issue needs >> >>> to be >> >>> addressed, because it is very important. It is a fact, that >> >>> participants >> >>> from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and possibly other countries, >> >>> will >> >>> never have the chance to attend the next wikimania conference should >> >>> it be >> >>> held in Israel. Further, other participants from other countries, >> >>> particularly "Arab" countries whose citizens do not usually go to >> >>> Israel for >> >>> any purpose, and this applies to both Jordan and Egypt with whom >> >>> Israel is >> >>> in diplomatically fine terms, will find many troubles from both the >> >>> Israeli >> >>> and their own governments. This is no speculation, there are hundreds >> >>> of >> >>> accounts on the internet of maltreatment and confiscation of >> >>> belongings of >> >>> passengers for all sorts of reasons by Israeli officials at entry/exit >> >>> points. Questions asked in such aggressive tonality and attitude >> >>> regarding >> >>> the passengers' views and opinion of Israel and the conflict in the >> >>> middle >> >>> east. Please ask the ministry of foreign affairs, whether they will >> >>> let some >> >>> attendees in, if they answered these questions as they do believe >> >>> rather >> >>> than fake a friendly answer! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their >> >>> results >> >>> were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about >> >>> the >> >>> "impossibility" of reconsidering the validity of the decision made by >> >>> the >> >>> jury, as though it is a sanctified or infallible one! Somehow it seems >> >>> that >> >>> so far no one apart from myself, who could get into Israel only >> >>> following a >> >>> car or bus ride of 8 hours from my very home in Cairo, took the time >> >>> to >> >>> think of the position of those who will never be permitted into >> >>> Israel, or >> >>> who will avoid doing so because Israel is in fact a problematic >> >>> destination >> >>> for them. And regardless of whether any of this is fair or not, we >> >>> currently >> >>> do have a realistic situation that is laden with injustice and great >> >>> potential of practical disorder, which somehow was not raised during >> >>> the >> >>> decision making process, although it is no secret or news! This >> >>> suggests >> >>> that non of those who will be negatively effected by the decision, >> >>> were >> >>> present when the process of deciding was ongoing. One of the benefits >> >>> of >> >>> this discussion then, is perhaps to give more attention to such >> >>> matters as >> >>> representativeness, inclusive deliberation, and outreach, in further >> >>> such >> >>> processes of wikimania biding and decision making. Perhaps from now >> >>> on, we >> >>> should make more effort in reaching out for, you know, "all the people >> >>> on >> >>> Earth" who might want to come to wikimania with their experiences, >> >>> etc. >> >>> Unfortunately I was not there then, and maybe i won't be able to be >> >>> there >> >>> later, but I do not believe that it is too late to bring this issue >> >>> now, and >> >>> to attempt to correct what is wrong even by those who, understandably, >> >>> love >> >>> their own country and would have loved to see it hosting such a >> >>> wonderful >> >>> event. It is for a clean, freeing, progressive, and Humanistic >> >>> experience >> >>> and social process that we commit ourselves; the passing-by moments in >> >>> this >> >>> experience will be destructive if they are absorbed only in the >> >>> passing-by >> >>> moment! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without >> >>> having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to >> >>> smoothen >> >>> the passage of those who participate together everyday in creating and >> >>> making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future. >> >>> This is >> >>> the position that I have chosen for myself, rather than the one that >> >>> you ask >> >>> me to adopt, that is, to suggest solutions to numberless problems and >> >>> to an >> >>> erroneous and unfair condition and situation. And now I ask you, what >> >>> is >> >>> YOUR position? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> :) >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Maysara >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimania-l mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > -- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
