yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that that members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed for bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)
best, dj On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián <balazs.vicz...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > "initial" was meant to refer to the times when the FDC (and its preceding > processes) were set up. Sorry if I was misunderstandable. > > Vince > > 2014-11-25 13:00 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak <dar...@alk.edu.pl>: > >> I mean 50 thousand, which positions the organization I ran at the level of >> really small chapters in our movement. >> >> I do not understand your point about stakeholders at all. Are you assuming >> that the FDC is acting as a WMF proxy? We are an independent, >> community-ran body advising to the Board (which, again IS NOT the >> Foundation). >> >> Additionally, we as the FDC, do not require external funding, so your >> further argument is even more confusing. We're only advising to get it >> whenever possible, but absolutely accept (a) explanations why it isn't >> just >> as well as (b) failed attempts. >> >> best, >> >> dj "pundit" >> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > ~50k means 50.000 Euros or 500.000 Euros? >> > >> > The value is important because cutting 20% or 30% in biggest budget >> means >> > to justify that to the stakeholders. >> > >> > The model that FDC is bringing to the chapters is more complex than >> > previously because the chapters have to find external funds. >> > >> > This means that the group of stakeholders has to be enlarged (a lot). >> > >> > I would give you the definition of stakeholders from ITIL: "those >> > individuals or groups that have an interest in an organization, service >> or >> > project and are potentially interested or engaged in the activities, >> > resources, targets or deliverables". >> > >> > WMF is one stakeholders. >> > >> > The submitters of a project are stakeholders, the members of the >> > associations are stakeholders, the editor of Wikimedia projects are >> > stakeholders and so on. >> > >> > In this case the FDC cannot evaluate the strategy of a chapter because >> WMF >> > is *one of the stakeholders*. >> > >> > And WMF cannot say that a chapter has not a strategy because a decision >> > like this generates as consequence a complete review of the strategy in >> > order to attract stakeholders. >> > >> > Basically if WMF is asking to find external funds to reduce the risk, >> the >> > consequence is that WMF is also declaring to would be a stakeholder with >> > less importance and less impact in the decision of the strategy of the >> > chapter. >> > >> > This is not my personal opinion, it's an evident consequence of biggest >> > budget. >> > >> > regards >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <dar...@alk.edu.pl >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Balazs, >> > > >> > > I'm quite puzzled and wondering what are you basing your opinion of >> the >> > FDC >> > > members' zero initial experience. I can speak only for myself, but I >> was >> > an >> > > ED of an NGO for 6 years (and successfully applied for grants and ran >> a >> > > ~50k annual budget), and I've been on the funds dissemination board >> for >> > > >> > > best, >> > > >> > > dariusz "pundit" >> > > >> > > >> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Balázs Viczián < >> > > balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu> wrote: >> > > >> > > > In regards to the original problem brought up by Gerard, FDC is more >> > > > or less on its maximum I think. >> > > > >> > > > Its members never did such (or similar) job(s) before FDC (the >> closest >> > > > would be credit checks, but that is like and IEG grant review - it >> is >> > > > pretty far from such a comprehensive grant - technically a >> > > > full "business plan" - review) >> > > > >> > > > Despite the little to zero initial experience of its members, >> > > > all-volunteer setup and the ever changing circumstances (global >> goals, >> > > > focus points, etc.) and how in general awful it sounds if you say it >> > > > out lout that an all-amateur (in the good sense) and inexperienced >> > > > group of people are handling >> > > > out USD 6 million every year in their free time and for free, it >> works >> > > > pretty well. >> > > > >> > > > Not perfect but you can not demand or expect perfection from such a >> > > setup. >> > > > >> > > > That is why there is a whole process now to correct the mistakes >> that >> > > > arise from this "non-professional system", including a dedicated >> > > > ombudsperson for the case(s). >> > > > >> > > > I think this is fair enough, the quality of the reviews are visibly >> > > > improving from year to year and for the first time there is a real >> > > > possibility to fix the mistakes and errors made, like the >> > > > "incoherentness" of reviews. >> > > > >> > > > Things from this point could be better only through radical changes >> to >> > > > the system imo. >> > > > >> > > > Balazs >> > > > >> > > > 2014-11-25 9:41 GMT, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com>: >> > > > > In my opinion the work of the FDC cannot be limited to compare >> three >> > > > years, >> > > > > to evaluate three budgets and to evaluate three impacts. >> > > > > >> > > > > I would say that it's *out of context*. >> > > > > >> > > > > I have had this feeling when I have read that the FDC consider >> that >> > > > Amical >> > > > > is the best example to follow. >> > > > > >> > > > > How "to follow"? Amical operates in a different context than other >> > > > > chapters. The question that a good example can be *cloned* is >> > > > surrealistic. >> > > > > >> > > > > Ok, nothing to say but: >> > > > > a) Amical operates in small community where the language is a >> strong >> > > glue >> > > > > within the community >> > > > > b) Amical has a strong inter-relation Wikimedia projects = >> > organization >> > > > > c) Amical has no big internal conflicts generated by external or >> > > internal >> > > > > questions (may be the opposite) >> > > > > d) the territory where Amical operates is relatively small >> > > > > >> > > > > A good example to compare Amical is with Wikimedia Israel. >> > > > > >> > > > > I would not speak in the specific case of WM DE but I suggest to >> look >> > > in >> > > > > the history of the German projects and in the German chapter and >> to >> > > check >> > > > > how many external decisions have had an impact in the German >> > community >> > > to >> > > > > generate a bias. I don't think that these decisions have been a >> good >> > > > > solution to improve the community participation to the projects. >> > > > > >> > > > > What I see is that the numbers of editors is decreasing a lot in >> the >> > > > > biggest projects. >> > > > > >> > > > > It may be caused by a wrong strategy where is privileged the >> > diversity >> > > > and >> > > > > the Global South but without paying attention that the historical >> > > > > communities and to the "usual" editors. May be I am wrong but >> there >> > are >> > > > > more online projects becoming attractive for the "potential" >> editors >> > > and >> > > > > the change of the target is not producing a real impact. >> > > > > >> > > > > So it's not a question of comparison of three budget. >> > > > > >> > > > > If the problem is critical the solution to limit the decreasing is >> > not >> > > > > beneficial. >> > > > > >> > > > > regards >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Il 24/Nov/2014 19:14 "Sydney Poore" <sydney.po...@gmail.com> ha >> > > scritto: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Hi Patrik, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> During this round of the FDC evaluating the requests, the >> majority >> > of >> > > > the >> > > > >> organizations that we were looking at had submitted requests to >> the >> > > FDC >> > > > >> for >> > > > >> the past 3 years. While we have seen improvement around strategic >> > > > >> planning, >> > > > >> budget planning and evaluation, there is still a great amount of >> > room >> > > > for >> > > > >> improvement from everyone in the wikimedia movement (including >> the >> > > WMF.) >> > > > >> >> > > > >> If you read the recommendations, FDC is primarily asking the >> largest >> > > > >> organizations to re-evaluate their current capacity to deliver >> > impact >> > > to >> > > > >> the movement in line with the funds that they are using. In many >> > > > instances >> > > > >> it involves looking at the organizations overall capacity to >> develop >> > > and >> > > > >> execute a strategic plan. Because the FDC is making >> recommendations >> > > > about >> > > > >> unrestricted funds, rather than focusing on a specific project or >> > > > program, >> > > > >> often the reductions in funds is linked to concerns about an >> > > > organizations >> > > > >> capacity to grow (eg., hire and manage more staff, do more >> > complicated >> > > > >> projects.) >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Warm regards, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Sydney Poore >> > > > >> User:FloNight >> > > > >> Member FDC >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > > Unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > __________________________ >> > > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak >> > > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego >> > > i centrum badawczego CROW >> > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego >> > > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl >> > > >> > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk >> > > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW >> > > >> > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An >> > > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego >> > > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010 >> > > >> > > Recenzje >> > > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml >> > > Pacific Standard: >> > > >> > >> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ >> > > Motherboard: >> > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia >> > > The Wikipedian: >> > > >> http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Ilario Valdelli >> > Wikimedia CH >> > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens >> > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre >> > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera >> > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich >> > Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario> >> > Skype: valdelli >> > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli> >> > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli> >> > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli < >> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469 >> > > >> > Tel: +41764821371 >> > http://www.wikimedia.ch >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> __________________________ >> prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak >> kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego >> i centrum badawczego CROW >> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego >> http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl >> >> członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk >> członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW >> >> Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An >> Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego >> autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010 >> >> Recenzje >> Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml >> Pacific Standard: >> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ >> Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia >> The Wikipedian: >> http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > -- __________________________ prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010 Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
