Hmm. It's more like we have little evidence that the former is happening, perhaps because of the latter. Anyway, yes, I think I've made my point and will let this thread get back on its main track.
Pine On Mar 13, 2015 5:43 PM, "Oliver Keyes" <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote: > So we've now moved from "the board doesn't ask hard enough questions!" > to "the board doesn't tell us enough"? Those are distinct concerns. If > you have them, I'd suggest spinning off a thread so we can keep this > one to what it's meant to be discussing. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Pardon the mobile device mistype. A *move* toward more openness. > > > > Pine > > On Mar 13, 2015 12:49 PM, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Oliver, > >> > >> I have thought about running more than once (: > >> > >> Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended. > >> > >> James, > >> > >> I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors. > >> Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry > about > >> losing our value of openness in the process. The majority of my > evaluation > >> is based on what I've seen in writing from board minutes, which seem > pretty > >> sparse on Q&A with the ED and staff. By contrast, I'm accustomed to our > >> generally open meetings of government entities here in Washington State > >> where we have some pretty expansive open records and open meetings laws, > >> and these seem to viewed in a positive light by the public which wants > to > >> understand the positions of its elected officials. A mice toward more > >> openness about board discussions might ease some of my concerns. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Pine > >> On Mar 13, 2015 12:32 PM, "Oliver Keyes" <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> (Personal capacity) > >>> > >>> Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it > >>> actually contained. What she said was "I trust our legal team to make > >>> decisions about what legal actions to participate in." In other words, > >>> to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of > >>> the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework > >>> that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. > >>> > >>> Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent > >>> expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing > >>> frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely > >>> appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, > >>> lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've > >>> never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have > >>> you. There's a wide range of options between "directly making > >>> decisions about legal questions" and "not asking questions"; it's not > >>> as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it > >>> does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - > >>> which seems to mean "a board that makes individual, specific product > >>> decisions and assumes legal expertise", I encourage you to run in the > >>> next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of > >>> that position. > >>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by > this > >>> > statement: > >>> > > >>> > "I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to > >>> > participate in." > >>> > > >>> > In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a > >>> > long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being > >>> > deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and > >>> > possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough > >>> > questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we > might > >>> all > >>> > have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product > >>> > dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project > >>> selection > >>> > and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance > >>> that > >>> > I read about boards in general says that good boards do due > diligance, > >>> and > >>> > I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough > questions. > >>> > This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful > atmosphere. > >>> > > >>> > Thank you, > >>> > > >>> > Pine > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >>> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
