there is a compromise license cc-by without the sa On 20 December 2015 at 21:38, Lydia Pintscher <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: > > Lydia, > > > > I can only relate my impressions to you. The first two items I looked at > > Now we're getting somewhere ;-) > > > (Jerusalem and Obama) happened to be protected, so on my first visit I > was > > completely non-plussed as to how to edit anything on Wikidata. I never > > noticed the lock icon (whereas I would have noticed, say, a coloured box > at > > the top of the page informing me that the item is locked). If I had been > > just a random user, I would not have been back. > > Ok. I think we can make the icon more colorful for example to draw > more attention to it. Mind you the icon is on-line with what you see > on Wikipedia as well. That is why we have it. > > > Once I got over that one, I found the order in which statements are > listed > > completely confusing. I would have expected them to follow some logical > > order, but it seems they are permanently *listed in the order in which > they > > were added to Wikidata*. So someone's date of birth can be the last > > statement on a Wikidata page, or the first. > > > > Compare for example the location of the date of birth for Angela Merkel > in > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q567 to the location of Barack Obama's > date > > of birth in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q76 > > > > I tried to figure out a way to change the order, but couldn't find one. > > Again, profoundly demotivating. Machines may not be bothered by this, > > because they can instantly find what they are looking for, but people > are. > > > > It might help to establish a default order for statements that makes > > logical sense to a human being, and that people can become used to. > > Yes that is indeed one of the problems we have identified for quite > some time already. It is high on the list for 2016. I hope we get to > it in Q1. > > > As for actual editing, a few weeks ago, figuring out how to add an IBM > > subsidiary to the IBM item, with a reference, must have taken me > something > > like half an hour. I read Wikidata:Introduction, learned about > properties, > > and then checked Help:Editing, which contained *nothing* about adding > > properties. The word is not even mentioned. > > Ok so on-wiki documentation is not good enough. Point taken. It has > been written by editors who are familiar with Wikidata. Giving > feedback on the talk pages for those help pages would be valuable. > > > After clicking "add" in the *existing* subsidiaries statement for IBM > item, > > I saw a question mark icon with a "help text" that reads, > > > > ---o0o--- > > > > Enter a value corresponding to the property named "subsidiaries". If the > > property has no designated value or the actual value is not known, you > may > > choose an alternative to specifying a custom value by clicking the icon > > next to the value input box. > > > > ---o0o--- > > > > I didn't find this text helpful at all. It could have simply said, "Enter > > the name of the subsidiary in the text box, and then add a reference." > > It is not as easy as that unfortunately. Potentially no item exists > for that subsidiary and then you need to create one. Also the > explanation for no-value and some-value in the text is important > (though we need to improve the UI for them). But point taken we can > improve this message. > > > At any rate, this is what I did. After I clicked "add reference", I got a > > new field that came with a "property" drop down menu pre-populated with > > "sex or gender", "date of birth", "given name", "occupation", "country of > > citizenship", "GND identifier" and "image", none of which are remotely > > relevant to entering a reference. > > Those should not have shown up for references and I am not aware of > issues with that. Which statement was this specifically? The > suggestions are not always perfect but at least the distinction > between properties in the main part of the statement and its > references should work very well. > > > The single property that would be most useful to list in that drop down > > menu when people have said they want to add a reference is "reference > URL". > > But it's not included. If newbies don't know this property exists, how > are > > they supposed to discover it? Somehow I got there, but it was not > enjoyable. > > As above this should have shown up. > > > These are indeed all user interface issues, and quite separate from the > > other aspects we have been talking about. But they contribute to making > > this wiki less attractive as a site that ordinary people might want to > > contribute to manually, on a casual basis. > > > > Yes, if you are sufficiently motivated, you can figure things out. But as > > things stand, I didn't find it inviting. > > Sure. As I said we still have quite some work to do and feedback such > as the above is what will help us make it better. > > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Lydia Pintscher < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> That is why I am working with re-users of Wikidata's data on this. > >> They can link to Wikidata. They can build ways to let their users edit > >> in-place. inventaire and Histropedia are two projects that show the > >> start of this. As I wrote in my Signpost piece it needs work and > >> education that is ongoing. > >> > > > > > > Use a licence that requires re-users to mention "Wikidata" on their > sites, > > ideally with a link to the Wikidata disclaimer, and you won't have to do > > any education at all, and at the same time you'll have done a great thing > > for transparency of data provenance on the internet. > > > > Moreover, you will have ensured that hundreds of millions of Internet > users > > are told where they can find Wikidata and edit it. Surely, if you > actually > > *want* to have human beings visiting and editing your wiki, that's in > your > > interest? > > I think we have to agree to disagree on the licensing part and what is > best for Wikidata there. Yes I do want people to come to Wikidata but > I do not want the license to be our forceful stick to achieve this. We > have to work to build a project that people want to come to and > contribute to. And we can do it as the number of editors for example > shows. > > > Cheers > Lydia > > -- > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher > Product Manager for Wikidata > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 > 10963 Berlin > www.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > -- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
