2016-02-22 1:14 GMT-08:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter <pute...@mccme.ru>:
> Absolutely. This is absolutely what happened. At some point I had to state
> that if FLOW gets introduced on all talk pages I would stop using talk
> pages. I was replied that they are sorry but this is my choice.

Our early communications approach about Flow was terrible, it is true,
and I take responsibility for not handling it better. I saw some
messages that made me cringe, but I didn't step in to say "This is not
how we want to do things". I'm sorry. As for my own comms style when I
was around the wikis, I think people have often found it arrogant and
thereby offputting. I've learned over the years that folks who are
external to the community are often naturally better at this. It's
tempting as a (formerly very active) community member to draw on your
own expertise and hopes to the point that you're no longer listening,
or seen to be listening.

I believe Flow-related communications improved significantly later on,
but by that time a lot of bridges had already been burned^Wnuked from
orbit. I think this early history significantly impacted perception
especially in the English Wikipedia community, to the point that
raising the name of the project immediately triggers lots of people in
that community. At the same time, the more proactive and careful
approach later fostered some use cases, like the Catalan Wikipedia
converting its entire Village Pump over:

https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Novetats
https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Multim%C3%A8dia
https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Propostes
https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Tecnicismes
https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Ajuda

I think a fair evaluation of the project's merits will need to look at
what actually happened in those communities that adopted it, whether
it's for wholesale usage on pages like this, or on user talk pages.
And if the numbers look positive and there's something that can be
done to heal the hurt that was caused in how the project was handled
early on, I'm happy to help if I can, even just by saying "Sorry".

Erik

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