Hoi,
I do not care about Mr Trump, I care about what it means for us, for our
community and the employees of the WMF. You are right the world is not San
Francisco. It is why I do not bother you with my thoughts about my opinion
about him.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 7 February 2017 at 13:49, Leigh Thelmadatter <osama...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> The
> people who are loudest in their demands for consensus do not represent the
> Wikimedia movement.
>
>
> The voices loudest for the WMF doing something against the Trump
> administration are not representative of the Wikimedia movement either...
> they have been WMF employees and those closest to them. This is maybe why
> most non-profits hire EDs from outside the organization then from within.
> As you show, Gerard, there has been no effort to find out what the movement
> thinks, and that may have been those behind the statement and amicus brief
> just assumed everybody would agree with them. The world is not San
> Francisco.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of
> Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 10:51:24 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Politics
>
> Hoi,
> As far as I am concerned, the WMF is not democratic. It does not matter.
> What does matter is that people only care about their own arguments and are
> not willing to entertain the considerations of others. While to some extend
> policies are worthwhile at the same time they prevent people from thinking.
> The consequence of the conversation being in English and the location of
> many of the "policies" is that English Wikipedia is over represented. It is
> however less than 50% of our traffic and you would not consider this from
> the demands put forward by this community. At the same time my perception
> is that all our communities think they are inherently superior and because
> of their policies refuse to collaborate with others. Wikidata is what I
> most closely associate with and they refuse to collaborate with non
> professional communities because there are errors in their work. Obviously
> self reflection is lacking.
>
> Similar observations are possible for all the Wikipedia communities I know.
>
> When we consider the world outside of our movement; we have been quite
> happy to condemn actions by the Chinese government. Now that the US
> American negatively impacts the WMF workforce and the ability for people to
> come to the WMF office people object that they are not consulted. Again, we
> are not a democracy and the "policies" have to function in the real world.
> In the real world our director and our board are allowed and do as the
> situation requires. In the real world two lawyers with experience in this
> field indicate that action indeed needs to be taken now. Hallelujah.
>
> The WMF is not a member organisation. Chapters are. Chapters however do not
> represent our projects and consequently they have no direct impact on the
> WMF itself. Consensus while admirable does not mean representation. The
> people who are loudest in their demands for consensus do not represent the
> Wikimedia movement. As it is, the current situation where we have a board
> that reflects the international composition of our movement does really
> well. They do consider the thoughts of the community but if anything they
> are also stifling what we do with too many well meant policies that are
> seen as law.
>
> Rules, guidelines even laws are a necessity. But they have a tendency to
> empower those with the loudest voice and they favour the incumbent. The
> current US government has a disdain for the law and as a consequence this
> invalidates the normal use of rules, guidelines and even laws. They are
> invalidated because the attention to what happens is as immediate as the
> pace whereby new ukazes are issued.
>
> If anything we are blessed with a board and a director who seek to inform,
> to connect to our communities and stay as close as possible to our general
> practice. They think and they react to a different world.. Again we face a
> world where much of our accomplishments are squandered to benefit those who
> are the real people / organisations behind the current US government. I am
> happy that I still may vote in the Dutch elections I hope for a different
> outcome in the Netherlands.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 6 February 2017 at 18:13, Adam Wight <awi...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > As wonderful as it is to see this discussion unfold, showing how many of
> us
> > care deeply about humanism and the movement's impact in the material
> world,
> > I'd like to observe that it also demonstrates how underdeveloped our
> > movement-wide political processes are. To my understanding, our tools
> > consist of: a small group interested in participating in this mailing
> list,
> > a small group who attends to metawiki, and an infrequent meeting of
> > chapters.
> >
> > It seems that all of these venues are frustrated by a lack of real power,
> > and Wikimedia-l in particular has the character of a pirate radio station
> > or underground newspaper rather than a place where we can build
> consensus.
> > There's certainly some value in the oppositional and antiestablishment
> > perspective that comes out of this arrangement, but perhaps we're missing
> > out on the benefits that would come from a fully-developed democracy?
> >
> > One alternative approach would be that Wikimedians resurrect something
> like
> > a "membership organization" in which you collectively own the WMF and
> > directly elect the entire Board. Then you may find your questions
> > answered, and have a path to building lasting consensus around
> > movement-wide issues.
> >
> > Adam
> > [[mw:User:Adamw]]
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Christophe Henner <
> chen...@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > I love that thread. Touchy topîc and yet an awesome discussion, Thank
> you
> > > so much :D
> > >
> > > A few month ago, little time after my election, I asked that question
> on
> > > Facebook and provided my own answer. And yes, I do believe that saying
> > > neutral knowledge should be freely accessible by everyone on the planet
> > is
> > > kind of a really really really really strong political statement.
> > >
> > > I also think that "politic" discussion is hard to have as the word
> > politics
> > > can bare many different meaning. One of them is derived on how we use
> it
> > > regarding national politics. We use politics as a word to include all
> > > politics (economic, social, education, etc.). And political party, or a
> > > political organization, will tend to adress all of them (or some).
> > >
> > > That is not what we are talking about actually. To me, I mean politic
> as,
> > > Asaf will love that, in latin (pertaining to public life). We are a
> > > political organization, we stand for strong values, but we are not
> > > political in the sense we're aligned with a specific party or
> candidate.
> > > And I don't know about the US, but one thing I love with french
> > wikimedian
> > > is knowing some of them are so fare away from me on the political scale
> > and
> > > yet share values (if I had time I would love to explain how I believe
> > this
> > > is an exemple of why our political systems are broken ^^).
> > >
> > > So in the end, to me, the question is where do we draw the line when it
> > > comes to standing up for our values and, related questions, what are
> > those
> > > values we should stand up for?
> > >
> > > But again, as a movement, we have the potential to have a huge impact
> on
> > > the world. That is not neutral, that is a force of change and change
> > always
> > > is poltical.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Christophe HENNER
> > > Chair of the board of trustees
> > > chen...@wikimedia.org
> > > +33650664739
> > >
> > > twitter *@schiste* skype *christophe_henner*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 12:23 AM, Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 2:55 PM James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The question I have been trying to ask, going back years now in
> fact,
> > > is
> > > > > whether "empower" refers to the political power to secure and
> retain
> > > > > the freedoms necessary and sufficent to contribute to the mission,
> or
> > > > > some other kind of power.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, it's your lucky day: you're finally getting an answer!
> > > >
> > > > WMF's de-facto interpretation of "empower" in the [[m:Mission]] does
> > > *not*
> > > > include "political power to secure and retain the freedoms necessary
> > and
> > > > sufficient to contribute to the mission".
> > > >
> > > > We do not directly solve people's lacking infrastructure (except
> > > indirectly
> > > > via partnerships like Wikipedia Zero), we do not provide computers to
> > > > billions of people who don't have them, we do not teach literacy to
> the
> > > > illiterate, we do not feed the poor so that they may contribute, and
> we
> > > do
> > > > not declare war on North Korea to free its poor people from the awful
> > > > tyranny they suffer under, to enable them to contribute. The list
> goes
> > > on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The concrete ways WMF worked to "empower" have been providing and
> > > > maintaining the main contribution platforms (the wikis), auxiliary
> > > > platforms (Tool Labs, Quarry, PAWS, Wikidata Query, etc.), funding
> for
> > > > *Wikimedia-related* activities via grants, programmatic resources and
> > > > mentorship, funding and support for international gatherings of the
> > > active
> > > > community, and a few other things.
> > > >
> > > > Your aspirational expansive interpretation (which includes paying
> > editors
> > > > to enable them to contribute, if memory serves) of "empower" has
> never
> > > been
> > > > close to what WMF, under its various leaderships, ever considered
> > > > appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > Now that your years-long query has an answer, perhaps you can stop
> > > asking.
> > > >
> > > > A.
> > > > _______________________________________________
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