Hoi,
You do not provide arguments so it is an opinion. Having said that, I did
not say that the attention for the English Wikipedia did not serve English
Wikipedia well. It did. Your opinion can be easily translated in "we do not
care and do not need to care".
What I am saying is that English Wikipedia is less than half our traffic
and it serves some 30% of our potential public. Given that there is a bias
in research and interest, we did not even give a thought on how to grow the
bottom 250 Wikipedias to be more useful for their public. For most of them
we do not need university level articles, we need to start with good enough
articles and start probably on a college level or the level of the last
year of primary school.
We do not have the content relevant for many cultures in English Wikipedia
so even the thought of translating what exists in English Wikipedia is too
much of a good thing. We do not have the data in Wikidata so we cannot even
suggest what to write in English.
The notion that thanks to English Wikipedia we have the standing the
funding is correct. Now lets do our job for the other 70%. If this is not a
diversity issue what is?
Thanks,
GerardM
On 25 June 2017 at 12:42, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd wouldnt call the current practice detrimental to our mission, nor would
> see english wikipedia as a bad influence for without en.wp we would have no
> global recognition, no movement, no funding and no need for a strategy
> process. English language communities are also our most diverse projects
>
> On 25 June 2017 at 18:03, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > Now that we apparently all agree that this is a diversity issue. An issue
> > where the current practice is detrimental to our mission, what are we
> going
> > to do about it? Just accepting it means that we do not take our mission
> > seriously.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > On 25 June 2017 at 08:45, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > This is not surprising, when the Foundation and all the external
> > > consultants advising it on this exercise are all US-based.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Leinonen Teemu <
> teemu.leino...@aalto.fi
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hej,
> > > >
> > > > Gerard made some very important points. My observation (not an
> opinion
> > > :-)
> > > > is also that the initiatives in, and with a focus on, global south
> are
> > > > under served. They are more difficult to do, because of various
> > reasons,
> > > > but this should not be a reason not to do them. It is also true that
> > > large
> > > > majority of research on Wikipedia/Wikimedia is about the
> en-Wikipedia.
> > If
> > > > WMF could do something to promote research looking beyond it would
> be
> > > > great.
> > > >
> > > > -Teemu
> > > >
> > > > > Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> kirjoitti 24.6.2017
> > kello
> > > > 13.00:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > The one serious flaw of the current practice is that English
> > Wikipedia
> > > > > receives more attention than it deserves based on its merits[1].
> This
> > > > bias
> > > > > can be found in any and all areas. There is for instance a huge
> > > > educational
> > > > > effort going on for English and there is no strategy known,
> > developed,
> > > > > tried to use education to grow a Wikipedia from nothing to 100.000
> > > > > articles.. the number considered to be necessary by some to have a
> > > viable
> > > > > Wikipedia. When you consider research it is English Wikipedia
> because
> > > > > otherwise it will not get published [2].
> > > > >
> > > > > A less serious flaw is that the WMF is an indifferent custodian of
> > > > projects
> > > > > other than Wikipedia. When it provides no service to Wikipedia like
> > > > > Wikisource, its intrinsic value is not realised to the potential
> > > readers
> > > > > that are made available. There is no staff dedicated to these
> > projects
> > > > and
> > > > > there is no research into its value.
> > > > >
> > > > > The angst for the community means that there is hardly any
> > > collaboration
> > > > > between the different Wikipedias. Mostly the "solutions" of English
> > > > > Wikipedia are imposed. There are a few well trodden paths that
> > > habitually
> > > > > get attention. When it comes to diversity, the gender gap is well
> > > served
> > > > > but the global south is not. A lot of weight is given to a data
> > driven
> > > > > approach but there is hardly enough data relevant to the global
> south
> > > in
> > > > > English Wikipedia to make such an approach viable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I have tried to get some attention for these issues in the
> > process
> > > > so
> > > > > far but <grin> as bringer of the bad news I am happy that it is the
> > > > message
> > > > > and not the messenger who is killed </grin>.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please tell me I am wrong and proof it by using more than opinions.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > GerardM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] less than 30% of the world populace and less than 50% of the
> WMF
> > > > > traffic.
> > > > > [2] comment by a professor whose university does a lot of studies
> on
> > > > > Wikipedia..
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 24 June 2017 at 12:33, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Strainu <strain...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 2017-06-23 23:48 GMT+03:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:
> > > > >>>> Could you elaborate on the benefits of this timetable change for
> > > > people
> > > > >>> who
> > > > >>>> are not involved with affiliates?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Starting from this assumption, and considering the fact that even
> > the
> > > > >>> most active wikimedians (not involved in a chapter) have real
> life
> > > > >>> commitments that do not allow them to follow this process
> > carefully,
> > > > >>> it is obvious that the main responsibility of the team that
> > > > >>> coordinates the process should have been outreach. In my
> particular
> > > > >>> geographic area, Track B contributors were engaged with only 2
> > weeks
> > > > >>> prior to the end of the last cycle, which is hardly enough time
> to
> > > > >>> read, understand, and think about the vast quantity of material
> > > > >>> available in the strategy process.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I am an active Wikimedia not involved in a Chapter. In Round 1, I
> > was
> > > > >> pretty active, and in the Russian Wikivoyage we collected quite
> some
> > > > >> feedback and translated it into English. It was essentially
> ignored.
> > > > None
> > > > >> of us participated in Round 2 since we thought it is a waste of
> > time.
> > > > Round
> > > > >> 2 was organized in the same way as Round 1 (many discussions
> opened
> > i
> > > n
> > > > >> different places, meaning there is no possibility to really
> discuss
> > > > >> anything, merely to leave one's opinion). I have corresponding
> pages
> > > on
> > > > 3
> > > > >> projects on my watchlists (with is 15 pages, and this is a lot),
> > but I
> > > > have
> > > > >> not seen in these discussions anything new not said before in
> Round
> > 1.
> > > > May
> > > > >> be smth useful would come out from other tracks, but I am not
> really
> > > > >> looking forward to Track B Round 3 either. I believe it is
> > completely
> > > > >> failed, and individual contributors did not have a chance to form
> a
> > > > >> considated opinion. The message for me is essentially: If you want
> > to
> > > be
> > > > >> heard, find a chapter or a thematic organization first. I hope the
> > > next
> > > > >> process will be organized differently in 10 years from now.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cheers
> > > > >> Yaroslav
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
