> I think the general attitude is clear: not interested. I've spoken with perhaps fifty wikimedians over the past couple years, and I simply do not believe that more than 20% could wish such ill will on their peers.
I am hardly the only one to speak up for community attraction and retention issues. Best regards, Jim On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:59 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > Dear James, > > this is a returning topic, it seems (Wikimedia should take political stands > on XYZ economic policies). And somehow it's always initiated by you. > > I think the general attitude is clear: not interested. > > I join the chorus: Wikimedia should remain nonpartisan, and not take any > position in political debates - unless it is directly relevant for our > mission. Exceptions may arise if there is a demonstrated overwhelming > consensus (as seems to have been the case with the climate neutral > policies), but even then focused on our projects. Not taking a position is > definitely not the same as taking a 'neutral' position or holding the > middle ground. > > This has nothing to do with the ED's resume, or what she does or doesn't > like to do. This has to do with core fundamental values our movement is > built on. Not taking a position in political debates is a core requirement > for us to remain acceptable as a source of information to all parties. > > Lodewijk > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 6:57 AM James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Yes. I think I am. I wouldn't have thought that WMF would be so driven by >> > economics. >> >> Have you looked at the ED's CV? >> >> > I would bail from this project and find another that was less partisan >> >> If the ED told donors to take steps that might get American editors >> health care, UK editors free college, German editors shorter work >> weeks, or Greek editors a two-bracket tax structure, that would be >> enough to make you want to stop participating? Why? >> >> > fewer and fewer institutions seem nonpartisan to me. >> >> I wish I could say the same. The Denver Post was just taken over by a >> hedge fund a couple months ago, and the newsroom staff gutted. That >> was certainly the kind of libertarian partisanship which the >> Foundation certainly supported through early support of civil >> liberties groups to the exclusion of tax and transfer equity groups, >> not to mention the Objectivist bent of most of the wikipedias' >> economics articles. Now the reporters are jumping ship and forming a >> new employee-owned newspaper, the Colorado Sun, using blockchain >> technology to facilitate a new equity structure. >> >> Being nonpartisan is like being neutral: relative to what? I am merely >> asking that the Foundation's default partisan position be modified for >> instead of against individual wikimedian editors. >> >> > the WMF projects would be more to your liking without people of my >> > beliefs intruding on policy discussions. >> >> Nonsense! Some of my best friends believe >> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfs1nG_UwAEsST3.jpg >> >> > I favor the WMF focusing its efforts on serving a vast public by offering >> > content that is not >> >> Not what? Not biased like the enwiki's "Economics" article implying >> that the government never spends taxes in a pathetic sophomorish >> attempt to claim that taxes are always bad? >> >> >> We should measure how much donors are likely >> >> to donate more or less for each of the issues. >> > >> > That is a short-run view. >> >> No, measurement to optimize donations is how we have always built the long >> run. >> >> > I prefer institutions that seem committed to a minimal core set of >> values. >> >> Such as fighting for the economic health of their volunteers thus >> enlarging the pool of potential volunteers and winning the concordant >> PR? >> >> > I am also surprised that you believe that the economics of donations >> > and grants should be driving the projects. >> >> I was not surprised when others confirmed that the articles I've been >> monitoring as quality barometers turned out to be heavily correlated >> with articles likely to be associated with above-average donations. >> >> > Is WMF for sale to corporate donors, to large private donors, or to >> those who >> > craft seductive fund-raising messages? >> >> Well obviously not because there are still hundreds of banner messages >> which have never been measured. >> >> >> I would also like to know the proportion of wikimedians who think the >> Mission >> >> is so restrictive. >> > >> > Facts are always nice >> >> The idea that more than a few percent of wikimedians think that the >> Mission limits political advocacy to libertarian copyright and >> internet law organizations is absurd. It may be 10% tops. If there is >> an actual question, we can and should measure the quantity. >> >> > What is an "optimized influence likelihood"? >> >> For example, the arguments for free college, shorter work weeks, >> payroll subsidies, and two-bracket taxation are appropriate for the >> UK, but single payer health care is not, because they've already won >> that a long time ago. Instead, the ED could substitute mental health >> care increases for her letter to UK donors, for example. >> >> But seriously, what kind of a UK wikimedian or donor is going to be >> offended by a one-size-fits-all-nations letter asking for donors to >> work for single payer in America? What kind of an African, Indian, or >> Chinese Wikipedian wouldn't want American and UK wikipedians to have >> free health care, shorter work weeks, and a more equitable tax and >> transfer incidence? >> >> Best regards, >> Jim >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > I'd reconsider contributing content to WMF projects if WMF became a >> >> > partisan on issues outside its basic remit. >> >> > >> >> > On Jun 15, 2018 16:11, "James Salsman" <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Regarding https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273 >> >> > >> >> > I propose that the Executive Director resume regular periodic >> >> > correspondence with donors on other ways they can support the >> >> > movement, beyond copyright and internet law advocacy that the >> >> > Foundation traditionally supports directly and indirectly. In >> >> > particular, I propose that the Executive Director ask donors to >> >> > support other organizations which are working for free college,[1-4] >> >> > single payer universal health care,[5] shorter work weeks,[6-7] >> >> > payroll subsidies,[8] and two-bracket taxation.[9] >> >> > >> >> > I believe all of these goals are favored by wikimedians, for >> >> > wikimedians, I predict at around 80% for the least popular. If there >> >> > is any question I ask that a statistically robust and significant >> >> > survey of the question among community and staff be conducted with the >> >> > urgency commensurate that work in these areas deserves. >> >> > >> >> > Best regards, >> >> > Jim Salsman >> >> > >> >> > [1] >> >> > https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/16/free-community- >> >> college-california_n_6474940.html >> >> > >> >> > [2] >> >> > >> https://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/20121212_Economics%20of% >> >> 20Higher%20Ed_vFINAL.pdf >> >> > >> >> > [3] https://www.docdroid.net/epSjOI2/peracchi2006.pdf >> >> > >> >> > [4] https://www.docdroid.net/joXd2MZ/heckman2006.pdf >> >> > >> >> > [5] https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/1007106802507378689 >> >> > >> >> > [6] >> >> > https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/03/does-working- >> >> fewer-hours-make-you-more-productive/ >> >> > >> >> > [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend#Length >> >> > >> >> > [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Work_Pay_tax_credit >> >> > >> >> > [9] >> >> > https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1595/12bb30b0ceddfe0525addf777bb2c3 >> >> 1542b6.pdf >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Dennis C. During >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
