Hoi,
The notion that search works because "there is somewhere a thingie that you
first have to select and oh it is a bit out the way" is an argument that
can only be made by someone who invested a lot in it. The sad thing is, did
you ever wonder if it worked because it does not. You did not consider a
public, a user story fulfilled.
My user story is simply this: A nine year old seeks images of a subject to
illustrate some homework he has to do. He types in the name of the subject
and gets results he can choose from. The nine year old reads and writes in
any of the 200+ languages we support. The teacher of the child is aware of
the necessity of labels in Wikidata and checked them. In the process
helping anybody to find the subjects that are in the curriculum.
Search is what the Wikimedia org provides. The problem with search has been
known for as long as Commons exists. The Commons community has not had a
material impact on search in all this time. Google does allow you to search
with good effect for a "თახვი" but what it brings up is not freely
licensed. It is therefore on the board of the Wikimedia Foundation to be
aware of this problem and give it the attention that it requires.
Let's be blunt; Google et all are increasingly good at the game of
providing information.The Wikimedia projects not as essential as they used
to be. We find this in our traffic numbers; we are dropping in the rankings
and we have no response.
Thanks,
GerardM
On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 at 19:59, Mike Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a reminder that multilingual search already works for Commons
> categories, for example search for 'telescopio lovell':
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=telescopio+lovell&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=page
>
> This is because the Wikidata Infobox on Commons displays multilingual
> information, and also includes search engine optimisation (i.e.,
> includes all language labels from Wikidata in the searchable source).
> We're nearly at 3.5 million categories using the infobox now (about half
> of all Commons categories...).
>
> It's a bit hidden out of the way now, though, since the default search
> is for images, and you need to click on 'Categories and pages'.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> On 18/7/21 18:49:28, Mohamed ElGohary wrote:
> > I must say that in my experience along the years is that search is not a
> > very strong feature in all Wikimedia projects, commons or not.
> > Personally I use commercial search engines to custom search Wikimedia
> > projects, and I include the Creative Commons search
> > <https://search.creativecommons.org/> for photos.
> >
> > I would love if there are efforts to include multilingualism and better
> > search in Wikimedia projects. For Wikimedia Commons specifically, I
> > would love to see (more) cooperation with Creative Commons and other
> > like-minded entities for better search results for all languages.
> >
> > ircpresident
> > --
> > photo
> > *Mohamed ElGohary*
> > Lingua Manager and Board Member, Global Voices
> >
> > https://globalvoices.org/lingua <https://globalvoices.org/lingua>
> >
> > <http://globalvoices.org/author/Mohamed-ElGohary/>
> > <http://ircpresident.com> <http://facebook.com/GVlingua>
> > <http://twitter.com/GVLingua>
> > <http://plus.google.com/+MohamedElGohary/>
> > <http://linkedin.com/in/ircpresident> <
> http://instragram.com/ircpresident>
> >
> > Key: 0x5D13669E Fingerprints: 7838 7FE7 E0E4 BF88 0024 2703 B452 E75A
> > 5D13 669E
> >
> > Amplifying Global Voices stories by the translation into dozens of
> > languages with the help of hundreds of volunteer translators. We are
> > Global Voices Lingua <http://globalvoices.org/lingua>!
> >
> > <http://globalvoices.org/donate> Donate to Global Voices
> > <http://globalvoices.org/donate>
> >
> >> On 16-Jul-21 10:09:33 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hoi,
> >> You have it the wrong way around. Our projects have a function, they
> >> exist for us to share in the sum of all knowledge. When a search
> >> engine provides results to a public in any language, it does not make
> >> a difference to how Commons is run. Your claim that finding pictures
> >> is only allowed when a community allows for it exposes a bias that is
> >> fundamentally wrong. What Commons contains is freely licensed and
> >> consequently anyone can search it, use it.
> >>
> >> Your claim that people worked hard to make Commons usable in other
> >> languages is fine. However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
> >> It is the purpose of Commons that its images are actually used, used
> >> world wide in any language. You claim that it is the community that
> >> allows for re-use. It is not, it is the license. It is the purpose of
> >> the Wikimedia movement to make the most of what we have and do. It is
> >> the responsibility of the Board to ensure that we do.
> >> Thanks,
> >> GerardM
> >>
> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 at 20:39, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:fae...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> It would be far more effective to make community and project
> proposals
> >> or run a wider community RFC about how the "common" projects work
> >> together rather than become a board member to make a difference in
> >> this area. The detail of how projects work and their policies is not
> >> something that the WMF board is well placed to dictate. Trustees are
> >> busy with WMF operational oversight and strategy, not lobbyists for
> >> how technical implementation might work.
> >>
> >> A board that starts dictating how projects must function, is
> probably
> >> a board that volunteers would never elect, if they have a choice.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Fae
> >>
> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 at 15:26, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com <mailto:gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hoi,
> >> > You make your point and you are essentially wrong. When you
> >> search in English for "beaver" you do not find beavers. They are
> >> mostly false positives related in one way or other to "beaver" but
> >> they do not depict a beaver[1] . This is true for all languages.
> >> My point is that Commons is not useful when people cannot find
> >> what they are looking for. Compare this to a search using the
> >> Wikidata labels linked to "depicts" statements in any and all
> >> languages, this is where they DO find beavers [2] (this app is by
> >> Hay Kranen and it shows the same functionality special:mediasearch
> >> used to have in a previous iteration).
> >> >
> >> > I am totally aware that it is only a subset of the images at
> >> Commons that can be found in this way. It however works for a
> >> general public and it does work in any language. The current
> >> search is however not functional when you "just" want to find a
> >> picture. When you argue that special purpose files with a Spanish
> >> description are a reason not to provide a functional search, I do
> >> wonder what Commons is for. Why have the biggest freely licensed
> >> resource of media files when it has no functional search, when it
> >> is essentially closed in all languages to the public.
> >> >
> >> > The reason why I aim to be a member of the board is exactly that
> >> we need a public for all the work that we have done. I do not mind
> >> when we start with a minimal service that works over a service
> >> that does not bring us the attention to Commons that it deserves.
> >> We do not truly value the data that we have.
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > GerardM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [1]
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MediaSearch?type=image&search=beaver
> >> <
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MediaSearch?type=image&search=beaver
> >
> >> > [2]
> >> https://hay.toolforge.org/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q181191
> >> <https://hay.toolforge.org/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q181191>
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 at 13:42, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:fae...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 17:32, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com <mailto:gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hoi.
> >> >> > One reason why I am a candidate for the board of the WMF is
> >> that in my opinion one function is lacking. There is no reflection
> >> of the fact that all that we do is to share the sum of all
> >> knowledge. It is not only about the creation of content but also
> >> about sharing the sum all the knowledge that is available to us.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For obvious reasons, the contributors to the projects are
> >> heard. I do not subscribe to the notion that the "projects" need
> >> to be in the organisational chart. With 300 languages and
> >> potentially multiple projects for each language it is impossible
> >> to have equity among these projects. The point that I have made
> >> repeatedly: Commons is not useful in any language but English,
> >> this does not need to be as there is software that works equally
> >> well in any language dependent on the availability of labels in
> >> Wikidata. This is just one example, there are more.
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> > GerardM
> >> >>
> >> >> "Commons is not useful in any language but English" is
> >> nonsense. The
> >> >> idea that displaying "labels" and imposed transclusions from
> >> Wikidata
> >> >> would make, say, a Commons image page Spanish description of a
> PDF
> >> >> book in Spanish redundant, and an English description is all that
> >> >> Commons should aim for, disregards the valued work that many
> >> Commons
> >> >> contributors make to keep the project multilingual.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would hope that the WMF board would understand how the projects
> >> >> function and their value to public reuse rather better than this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Fae
> >> >> --
> >> >> fae...@gmail.com <mailto:fae...@gmail.com>
> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae>
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