Hi. Thank you for your cooperation. در تاریخ پنجشنبه ۱۶ فوریهٔ ۲۰۲۳، ۱۸:۱۸ The Cunctator <cuncta...@gmail.com> نوشت:
> This is almost definitely the case. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 2:39 AM Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And this is a problem. >> >> If ChatGPT uses open content, there is an infringement of license. >> >> Specifically the CC-by-sa if it uses Wikipedia. In this case the >> attribution must be present. >> >> Kind regards >> >> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023, 08:12 Peter Southwood, <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> >> wrote: >> >>> “Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing >>> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models” >>> This may be a choice that comes back to bite them. Without citing their >>> sources, they are unreliable as a source for anything one does not know >>> already. Someone will have a bad consequence from relying on the >>> information and will sue the publisher. It will be interesting to see how >>> they plan to weasel their way out of legal responsibility while retaining >>> any credibility. My guess is there will be a requirement to state that the >>> information is AI generated and of entirely unknown and untested >>> reliability. How soon to the first class action, I wonder. Lots of money >>> for the lawyers. Cheers, Peter. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Subhashish [mailto:psubhash...@gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* 05 February 2023 06:37 >>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >>> >>> >>> >>> Just to clarify, my point was not about Getty to begin with. Whether >>> Getty would win and whether a big corporation should own such a large >>> amount of visual content are questions outside this particular thread. It >>> would certainly be interesting to see how things roll. >>> >>> >>> >>> But AI/ML is way more than just looking. Training with large models is a >>> very sophisticated and technical process. Data annotation among many other >>> forms of labour are done by real people. the article I had linked earlier >>> tells a lot about the real world consequences of AI. I'm certain AI/ML, >>> especially when we're talking about language models like ChatGPT, are far >>> from innocent looking/reading. For starters, derivative of works, except >>> Public Domain ones, must attribute the authors. Any provision for >>> attribution is deliberately removed from systems like ChatGPT and that only >>> gives corporations like OpenAI a free ride sans accountability. >>> >>> >>> >>> Subhashish >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 4:41 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'm not so sure Getty's got a case, though. If the images are on the >>> Web, is using them to train an AI something copyright would cover? That to >>> me seems more equivalent to just looking at the images, and there's no >>> copyright problem in going to Getty's site and just looking at a bunch of >>> their pictures. >>> >>> >>> >>> But it will be interesting to see how that one shakes out. >>> >>> >>> >>> Todd >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:47 AM Subhashish <psubhash...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing >>> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models. >>> Getty has just sued Stability AI, alleging the use of 12 million >>> photographs without permission or compensation. Imagine if Stability had to >>> purchase from Getty through a legal process. For starters, Getty might not >>> have agreed in the first place. Bulk-scaping publicly visible text in >>> text-based AIs like ChatGPT would mean scraping text with copyright. But >>> even reusing CC BY-SA content would require attribution. None of the AI >>> platforms attributes their sources because they did not acquire content in >>> legal and ethical ways [1]. Large language models won't be large and >>> releases won't happen fast if they actually start acquiring content >>> gradually from trustworthy sources. It took so many years for hundreds and >>> thousands of Wikimedians to take Wikipedias in different languages to where >>> they are for a reason. >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/ >>> >>> >>> Subhashish >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:06 PM Peter Southwood < >>> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >>> >>> From what I have seen the AIs are not great on citing sources. If they >>> start citing reliable sources, their contributions can be verified, or not. >>> If they produce verifiable, adequately sourced, well written information, >>> are they a problem or a solution? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Gnangarra [mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* 04 February 2023 17:04 >>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >>> >>> >>> >>> I see our biggest challenge is going to be detecting these AI tools >>> adding content whether it's media or articles, along with identifying when >>> they are in use by sources. The failing of all new AI is not in its >>> ability but in the lack of transparency with that being able to be >>> identified by the readers. We have seen people impersonating musicians and >>> writing songs in their style. We have also seen pictures that have been >>> created by copying someone else's work yet not acknowledging it as being >>> derivative of any kind. >>> >>> >>> >>> Our big problems will be in ensuring that copyright is respected in >>> legally, and not hosting anything that is even remotely dubious >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 22:24, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Brainstorming on how to drive traffic to Wikimedia content from >>> conversational media, UI/UX designers could provide menu items or buttons >>> on chatbots' applications or webpage components (e.g., to read more about >>> the content, to navigate to cited resources, to edit the content, to >>> discuss the content, to upvote/downvote the content, to share the content >>> or the recent dialogue history on social media, to request >>> review/moderation/curation for the content, etc.). Many of these envisioned >>> menu items or buttons would operate contextually during dialogues, upon the >>> most recent (or otherwise selected) responses provided by the chatbot or >>> upon the recent transcripts. Some of these features could also be made >>> available to end-users via spoken-language commands. >>> >>> At any point during hypertext-based dialogues, end-users would be able >>> to navigate to Wikimedia content. These navigations could utilize either >>> URL query string arguments or HTTP POST. In either case, bulk usage data, >>> e.g., those dialogue contexts navigated from, could be useful. >>> >>> The capability to perform A/B testing across chatbots’ dialogues, over >>> large populations of end-users, could also be useful. In this way, >>> Wikimedia would be better able to: (1) measure end-user engagement and >>> satisfaction, (2) measure the quality of provided content, (3) perform >>> personalization, (4) retain readers and editors. A/B testing could be >>> performed by providing end-users with various feedback buttons (as >>> described above). A/B testing data could also be obtained through data >>> mining, analyzing end-users’ behaviors, response times, responses, and >>> dialogue moves. These data could be provided for the community at special >>> pages and could be made available per article, possibly by enhancing the >>> “Page information” system. One can also envision these kinds of analytics >>> data existing at the granularity of portions of, or selections of, >>> articles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* Victoria Coleman <vstavridoucole...@gmail.com> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:10 AM >>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Christophe, >>> >>> >>> >>> I had not thought about the threat to Wikipedia traffic from Chat GPT >>> but you have a good point. The success of the projects is always one step >>> away from the next big disruption. So the WMF as the tech provider for the >>> mission (because first and foremost in my view that?s what the WMF is - as >>> well as the financial engine of the movement of course) needs to pay >>> attention and experiment to maintain the long term viability of the >>> mission. In fact I think the cluster of our projects offers compelling >>> options. For example to your point below on data sets, we have the amazing >>> Wikidata as well the excellent work on abstract Wikipedia. We have >>> Wikipedia Enterprise which has built some avenues of collaboration with big >>> tech. A bold vision is needed to bring all of it together and build an MVP >>> for the community to experiment with. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Victoria Coleman >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2023, at 4:14 AM, Christophe Henner < >>> christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> ?Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> On the product side, NLP based AI biggest concern to me is that it would >>> drastically decrease traffic to our websites/apps. Which means less new >>> editors ans less donations. >>> >>> >>> >>> So first from a strictly positioning perspective, we have here a major >>> change that needs to be managed. >>> >>> >>> >>> And to be honest, it will come faster than we think. We are >>> perfectionists, I can assure you, most companies would be happy to launch a >>> search product with a 80% confidence in answers quality. >>> >>> >>> >>> From a financial perspective, large industrial investment like this are >>> usually a pool of money you can draw from in x years. You can expect they >>> did not draw all of it yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> Second, GPT 3 and ChatGPT are far from being the most expensive products >>> they have. On top of people you need: >>> >>> * datasets >>> >>> * people to tag the dataset >>> >>> * people to correct the algo >>> >>> * computing power >>> >>> >>> >>> I simplify here, but we already have the capacity to muster some of >>> that, which drastically lowers our costs :) >>> >>> >>> >>> I would not discard the option of the movement doing it so easily. That >>> being said, it would mean a new project with the need of substantial >>> ressources. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> With respect to cloud computing costs, these being a significant >>> component of the costs to train and operate modern AI systems, as a >>> non-profit organization, the Wikimedia Foundation might be interested in >>> the National Research Cloud (NRC) policy proposal: >>> https://hai.stanford.edu/policy/national-research-cloud . >>> >>> >>> >>> "Artificial intelligence requires vast amounts of computing power, data, >>> and expertise to train and deploy the massive machine learning models >>> behind the most advanced research. But access is increasingly out of reach >>> for most colleges and universities. A National Research Cloud (NRC) would >>> provide academic and *non-profit researchers* with the compute power >>> and government datasets needed for education and research. By democratizing >>> access and equity for all colleges and universities, an NRC has the >>> potential not only to unleash a string of advancements in AI, but to help >>> ensure the U.S. maintains its leadership and competitiveness on the global >>> stage. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Throughout 2020, Stanford HAI led efforts with 22 top computer science >>> universities along with a bipartisan, bicameral group of lawmakers >>> proposing legislation to bring the NRC to fruition. On January 1, 2021, the >>> U.S. Congress authorized the National AI Research Resource Task Force Act >>> as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021. >>> This law requires that a federal task force be established to study and >>> provide an implementation pathway to create world-class computational >>> resources and robust government datasets for researchers across the country >>> in the form of a National Research Cloud. The task force will issue a final >>> report to the President and Congress next year. >>> >>> >>> >>> "The promise of an NRC is to democratize AI research, education, and >>> innovation, making it accessible to all colleges and universities across >>> the country. Without a National Research Cloud, all but the most elite >>> universities risk losing the ability to conduct meaningful AI research and >>> to adequately educate the next generation of AI researchers." >>> >>> >>> >>> See also: [1][2] >>> >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2023/01/24/national-artificial-intelligence-research-resource-task-force-releases-final-report/ >>> >>> [2] >>> https://www.ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/NAIRR-TF-Final-Report-2023.pdf >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* Steven Walling <steven.wall...@gmail.com> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:59 AM >>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:47 PM Gerg? Tisza <gti...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Just to give a sense of scale: OpenAI started with a $1 billion >>> donation, got another $1B as investment, and is now getting a larger >>> investment from Microsoft (undisclosed but rumored to be $10B). Assuming >>> they spent most of their previous funding, which seems likely, their >>> operational costs are in the ballpark of $300 million per year. The idea >>> that the WMF could just choose to create conversational software of a >>> similar quality if it wanted seems detached from reality to me. >>> >>> >>> >>> Without spending billions on LLM development to aim for a >>> conversational chatbot trying to pass a Turing test, we could definitely >>> try to catch up to the state of the art in search results. Our search >>> currently does a pretty bad job (in terms of recall especially). Today's >>> featured article in English is the Hot Chip album "Made in the Dark", and >>> if I enter anything but the exact article title the typeahead results are >>> woefully incomplete or wrong. If I ask an actual question, good luck. >>> >>> >>> >>> Google is feeling vulnerable to OpenAI here in part because everyone can >>> see that their results are often full of low quality junk created for SEO, >>> while ChatGPT just gives a concise answer right there. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menu_(2022_film) is one of the top >>> viewed English articles. If I search "The Menu reviews" the Google results >>> are noisy and not so great. ChatGPT actually gives you nothing relevant >>> because it doesn't know anything from 2022. If we could just manage to >>> display the three sentence snippet of our article about the critical >>> response section of the article, it would be awesome. It's too bad that the >>> whole "knowledge engine" debacle poisoned the well when it comes to a >>> Wikipedia search engine, because we could definitely do a lot to learn from >>> what people like about ChatGPT and apply to Wikipedia search. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/6OBPB7WNHKJQXXIBCK73SDXLE3DMGNMY/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> 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