Is nobody at the TDF wondering *why* so few people applied to join? I find it absurd to deflect responsibility for this to the volunteer community, to be honest – it should be in the Forum’s own interest to establish its legitimacy within the Wikimedia developer community as a whole.
Am Do., 6. Okt. 2022 um 08:54 Uhr schrieb Linh Nguyen <[email protected] >: > Kunal, > I hear you but we only have 3 people who actually put the effort into > applying for the position. We are appointing people who are at least > trying to help. If you want to help in the process please feel free to put > your name on the list. > > "I currently count about 33 out of 40 TDF members being WMF Staff. Over > the past 90 days, only 49.4% of Gerrit patches came from WMF Staff[1]. > My straw-dog proposal is that representation should be proportional, > i.e. WMF Staff should make up less than half of the TDF, or whatever > decision-making body replaces it." > > If you can't even get more than 2 people to apply for the positions what > ideas do you have to increase the number of experienced representatives? > So based on what you said we should only have 3 people as representatives, > 2 from the community and 1 from WMF. > > "The negativity mostly exists because people (WMF staff and volunteers) > having spent months asking questions about TDF composition and decisions > and then were entirely ghosted." > > All the information is here > <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_decision_making>. As I have > pointed out before, If you have any questions please contact us at > [email protected]. > > "I am fine with saying the quiet part out loud. Most volunteer developers > aren't interested in participating in the TDF because it treats them as > second-class participants. Contrasting to TechCom, which for all its > faults at least had public meetings that volunteers could participate in > as equals, the implementation of the TDF literally left volunteers as an > afterthought." > > I was not there but from what I understand TechCom did not achieve what it > set out to do. If TechCom worked TDF would not exist. > > "At this point joining the TDF would only add the appearance of > legitimacy to a closed, non-transparent system that is antithetical to > Wikimedia development principles." > > I would see the community joining TDF to help improve and develop a better > process. Without experiencing and having a firsthand understanding of how > things are done, how can the community contribute to improving the > process? > > TDF is not hiding anything from the community. We are always working on > improving the process. We are learning to walk and there are times we > stumbled but we need to pick ourselves up and try again. > > I am into productivity and improvement on what we are trying to do. I can > see this cycle of frustration is not being productive at all. I would like > for you and Brian to have a video conference call with me so we can see how > to make this a productive process. I can clear a couple of hours this > Friday for us. If you need more time please let me know. It would be even > better if we can meet in person. If you are near the WMF office in San > Francisco, I can book us a meeting room and I'll drive to the city to meet > you. If you aren't in the area, I can fly out to wherever you are, on my > own dime. I know we are all working toward the same goal, but our > approaches are misaligned. We just need to work together. Email me > directly, [email protected], so we can set up a time to meet. To be > transparent and productive, we can record our meeting, in person or on > google meet, and share it with the community. Any community member who > feels they have ideas to improve the process, please I invite you to email > me directly. We can also have 1:1 if that makes it easier for you. I'm > looking forward to meeting you and getting to know you better. > > See you soon, > > Linh > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:40 PM Kunal Mehta <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 10/6/22 00:36, Linh Nguyen wrote: >> > In the spirit of the Wikimedia Movement Strategy, to be inclusive and >> > support open knowledge, I applaud everyone to reach out to others in >> our >> > community to help and support those who are not as fortunate to have >> the >> > skills and knowledge you have. We should be lifting each other up and >> > stop pushing others down for trying to help the community. >> >> I think it is patently unfair to describe Brian's email as "pushing >> others down". It is an absolutely fair critique of the *TDF* to ask why >> they are appointing members who appear to have no experience in >> Wikimedia technical spaces. This is not a commentary on the people who >> applied, but rather the TDF process. >> >> > If anyone out there is willing to contribute to the Technical >> > Decision Forum process, please add your name to the list >> > < >> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_decision_making/Community_rep_nomination >> >. >> >> I am fine with saying the quiet part out loud. Most volunteer developers >> aren't interested in participating in the TDF because it treats them as >> second-class participants. Contrasting to TechCom, which for all its >> faults at least had public meetings that volunteers could participate in >> as equals, the implementation of the TDF literally left volunteers as an >> afterthought. >> >> At this point joining the TDF would only add the appearance of >> legitimacy to a closed, non-transparent system that is antithetical to >> Wikimedia development principles. >> >> > Brian and everyone else, if you have ideas on how we can have more >> > community representation, please feel free to contact us at >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. We need >> to >> > come together with ideas and solutions and remove negativity from the >> > process. >> >> The negativity mostly exists because people (WMF staff and volunteers) >> having spent months asking questions about TDF composition and decisions >> and then were entirely ghosted. >> >> I currently count about 33 out of 40 TDF members being WMF Staff. Over >> the past 90 days, only 49.4% of Gerrit patches came from WMF Staff[1]. >> My straw-dog proposal is that representation should be proportional, >> i.e. WMF Staff should make up less than half of the TDF, or whatever >> decision-making body replaces it. >> >> [1] https://wikimedia.biterg.io/ >> >> -- Kunal / Legoktm >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikitech-l mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ -- Lucas Werkmeister (he/er) Software Engineer Wikimedia Deutschland e. 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