Where is the working space of the technical forum? The someone chat, wiki discussion, mailist(s) or the the forum somewhere?
2022-10-15 6:56 GMT+02:00, Kunal Mehta <lego...@debian.org>: > Hi, > > On 10/6/22 07:38, Kate Chapman wrote: >> I'm curious about the perception of TechCom being more community >> oriented than the new process. During the time I was responsible for >> facilitating TechCom it was entirely represented by Wikimedia Foundation >> staff, the exception being when Daniel Kinzler worked for Wikimedia >> Deutschland. > > How many non-WMF/WMDE staff sent proposals through the TechCom RfC > process? A bunch. How many have used TDF? 0.5 of a proposal maybe. > > Yes, TechCom was composed of nearly entirely WMF staff, but that didn't > matter. Anyone was invited to submit a proposal through the process, and > usually it would get a public meeting/discussion with input on how to > move it forwards. You could just show up and participate in a meeting if > you were interested in that topic, you didn't need to agree to a 6-month > long commitment. > > On the flip side, here's the first sentence from the TDF wiki page: "The > Wikimedia technical decision making process empowers teams to make > decisions that are..." > > It clearly states this is about empowering [WMF/WMDE] teams, not anyone > else. That's a very different mission from what TechCom did. Don't get > me wrong, TechCom had plenty of flaws, but I would not put transparency > nor inclusion of community among them. > >> The idea behind the current representation is to make sure >> the right stakeholders are identified to help make a decision, not that >> the representatives are voting on a decision or anything like that. > > This is not what has been said publicly. For example, "Some of us try to > proxy vote for what we understand technical community including the > poorly defined "third party" users are interested in..."[1] > >> Regarding the public TechCom meetings. There aren't a bunch of secret >> Technical Decision Forum meetings going on now that people aren't being >> invited to. Is the desire to have an IRC meeting at some point in the >> decision making process to gain input? Or are there other ways people >> think would be better for contributing? > > It might not be meetings, and it might not be anyone's intention to be > exclusionary, but there is definitely secret things going on. > > For example, myself and at least 3 WMF staff members have been asking > for information related to the "Authentication Experiments 2022" project > to be made public and have been met with total silence[2]. I'm not > really surprised anymore, this appears to be the default posture when it > comes to literally anyone trying to get info from the TDF (see Zabe's > email, or unanswered comments on Phabricator, etc.). > > The TDF clearly has no teeth either, since people can just withdraw > their proposals from the process after receiving objections and > implement them anyways[3]. > > At this point I think we should stop trying to make the TDF a legitimate > body and work on setting up a functional, inclusive and representative > Technology Council. > > [1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T293323#7485829 > [2] Requests made in May (x2), July and September > [3] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T301724#7942826 > > Thanks, > -- Kunal / Legoktm > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
