[Winona Online Democracy] I think this is veering far away from the "trucks vs. trains" discussion which is the subject of this thread.
Can we please bring our discussion back more to the local issues at hand and try to write more about principles than personalities? Thanks, Kathy Seifert Co-Moderator ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Frank Pomeroy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] Trucks VS Trains > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > On Friday, Sep 26, 2003, at 09:11 US/Central, Frank Pomeroy wrote: > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > > David, in your long dissertation you say " I fail to see why this is a > > nice > > place because members of a nice place do not try to run it's members > > down > > daily". That sir is precisely what you are doing.You seem like a very > > intelligent person, but you scurry your remarks with your hard line > > prejudices to include anti-establishment, anti-government, anti-police, > > anti-anti-anti, etc... > > Since when was there a problem with being anti-establishment, > anti-government, anti-police? It certainly seems as if there is an > implied problem with that. I have a problem with your defence of the > establishment that inherently violates what the establishment claims to > stand for. > > Oddly, I adhere to a form of antidisestablishmentarianism as well as > some disestablishmentarianism. However, I am not a not a total > antidisestablishmentarian as your assertion seems to imply. It seems I > am quite conservative when you get to the core. > > Why not be anti-establishment and anti-government? Parts of the > establishment need the living shreds torn out of them, and then some. > The recent regimes seem to justify a course toward disestablishment. > When these people ignore the very fabric that allowed them to take > power, in-order to "catch a few terrorists", as they claim; but, > considering they were doing just fine without their establishment > destruction one needs to seriously question the actions of those vying > to defend the establishment. It also seems odd that the current > establishment is allowed to lobby the public toward specific issues > then when others want to do the exact same action then the operators > seem to pull the plug on the constitution. Translation: Hypocrites! > > Then looking further into the establishment one sees one obvious > picture. These are two mafias (Democrats and Republicans) running > everything. They both work together to prevent other mafias (third > parties like the Greens or Libertarians) from grabbing a piece of their > collective pie. However, this is where their cooperation ends. They > both have territories that they covet. (Seventy percent or more of the > districts in this country consistently vote for one party or another > and do not change.) They even have wars over turf. (Redistricting) They > are both trying to run the other into the ground while failing to > realise that this is highly unlikely. Looking at that picture is > disgusting, and true. There are solutions to these problems however, > neither mafia is willing to seriously examine them as that would force > them to recognise their opposition. This is a blunder because in most > cases the one exists because of the other. Everyone else in between and > even those that support one party or the other suffer. > > It seems odd that I am the only one being accused of being > anti-establishment. No one has accused the city council of being > anti-establishment. They should be accused of this. It would seem the > definition would be highly fitting considering their recent flirtation > with criminality. The city council seems to be guilty of violating more > than one section of the Minnesota open meeting law. If the city council > really wanted a Wal Mart, if their case was really legitimate, why not > follow the law. It was not that hard and it was not an oppressive law. > The same applies elsewhere. > > Why am I the one being called anti-establishment, anti-government. I am > not the one in the government that OKed the systematic violation of > international law in the thousands of times. Acting-President George > Walker Bush disagreed with The ABM Treaty and pulled out of that > agreement as par the agreement. However, when it came to the United > Nations, George Walker Bush (not to mention William Jefferson Clinton > and almost every other US president since the founding of the UN) did > not agree with that body at times and did not pull out as according to > the agreement before acting. Instead the leaders have knowingly > violated the UN Charter and other documents thousands of times rather > than working with the body or acting in accordance to its principles. > (Of course they could not work with the body since their actions would > have been outright illegal.) > > Furthermore, when one reads the United Nations Universal Declaration of > Human Rights ( http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html ) one can see > quite clearly that as of late the current United States government is > incapable of fulfilling the entire resolution even after fifty years. > Recently, with legislation passed from multiple government units, more > and more aspects of this document are getting thrown to the side. Some > of these are so basic and simple that it would seem dumb for a "free > state" like the United States of America to ignore them. Yet that is > exactly what is happening. Since these are so basic, and those in > office are incapable of working toward these goals, in fact, many > choose to work against these goals, it is time for a large-scale > revolution. > > Anti-Cop, ask one question. Why is it this way? People do not become > anti-cop overnight or with the flip of the wand. (The same applies to > terrorism as well.) > > > I believe that most of the citizens > > of Winona consider it a safe place and are very happy to reside here. > > I also > > believe that our efforts have contributed greatly to the safe > > environment. > > I did not say your efforts did not contribute to a safe environment. I > pointed out, that a lack of murders or other felonies means nothing if > you are dead under someone's tire from a situation that is preventable. > There is a massive difference. (That magic word IF seemed to denote > this quite well in the original text. ) > > > David the crime rate in Winona has dropped approximately 33% from 1995 > > through 2002. It was reduced from 5320 crimes in 1995 to 3298 in 2002, > > with > > steady drops along the way. I have attributed the drops to many things > > to > > include a community oriented policing approach which has been very > > successful in curbing crime directly related to the abuse of alcohol > > and > > drugs. . With your theory of under reporting one would have to assume > > that > > for some unknown reason almost 2000 people affected by crime didn't > > report > > the crime. > > Some crime does go unreported. I had a frying pan, a pancake flipper > and ninety-nine dollars in change stolen. I did not report it stolen > for two reasons. 1) I did not know when it was stolen as these are > items most do not look at daily. Attempting to report this missing > without a date is fruitless and a waste of your time not to mention > mine. 2) Cash and Cooking Utensils are not items that get recovered > since they are both rather common and again, it seemed like a waste of > time. (I have no clue why someone stole two of my cooking utensils. > That is just a bit strange considering there was other slightly more > valuable items like alarm clocks. ;-) ) > Some of the dumb stuff goes unreported. > > Rape also is a crime that is not always reported. > > > We responded to the jake brake noise problem because we received > > complaints. We really don't care whether the complaining parties have > > pansies in their yard or they live in a public housing environment. > > Our job > > is to handle the complaint. Regarding your traffic concerns we have > > conducted many saturation patrols that have resulted in hundreds of > > citations being issued for stop sign violations, speeding, improper > > lane > > changes etc.. When the colleges start their sessions we inject > > thousands on > > drivers onto the Winona streets. We have to continually work to hold > > the > > speeds down and build a genuine respect amongst drivers. Your closing > > comment "the police certainly have enough time" infers that you feel > > that > > the police are sitting around with nothing to do. > > I was told in a grapevine kinda chat... not sure where I heard it that > it, but rumour has it that it was also suggested to move the speed > signs so this jake braking would be done outside of city bounds and > away from those affected. > > ...and about Turn Signals??? > > re: Time The implication was there, but I was alluding to something > else. > > > We have a ride-a-long > > program David. You should consider partaking in that rather than > > criticizing > > from your lounge chair. David my direct phone number is 457-6201. Call > > when > > you have a concern. You state that all you received is pathetic lip > > service > > from the police chief when you brought this issue up. I don't ever > > recall > > you contacting me with a problem. > > My lounge chair is so comfortable. Perhaps I should stay there rather > than working, after all I would not have to go by the LEC which seems > as the epicentre of all the turn signal violations and other moronic > behaviour. > > I was referring to an email response from years earlier that I included > in the bottom of the email. While it may not have been directed toward > your desk, you did respond. > > ******************************************** > David Dittmann > Last year, less than one thousand persons, worldwide, died as a result > of terrorism, while in India, ten thousand persons died from venomous > snakes. > > > > End Transmission > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: David [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: [Winona] Trucks VS Trains > >> > >> [Winona Online Democracy] > >> > >> On Thursday, Sep 25, 2003, at 18:14 US/Central, K.C. O'Dea wrote: > >> > >>> [Winona Online Democracy] > >>> > >>> David Dittman Wrote: > >>> The Winona police department should receive the John Latsch, Human > >>> Rights award for their efforts to curtail sound violence against > >>> prissy white people's pansies from jake braking trucks, while > >>> ignoring > >>> a real issue right outside the LEC; drivers not using their turn > >>> signals. Those poor, oppressed, white people's pansies were > >>> whithering > >>> to a miserable death from the noise, until the police department > >>> valiantly stepped in and defended those poor oppressed pansies by > >>> choosing to enforce local ordinances rather than state laws such as > >>> 169.19 subd 5. > >>> > >>> > >>>> What if the jake-braking trucks don't use their blinkers? My point > >>>> being that our police department keeps Winona's crime rate low, and > >>>> for that you should be thankful Mr. Dittman. Be glad you can live in > >>>> a community where the police can, if they so desire, concentrate > >>>> some > >>>> of their efforts on issues that you seem to find trivial. And what > >>>> about the more moderatly priced homes that run alongside the > >>>> railroad > >>>> tracks within the city. Are those people who complain about the > >>>> noise > >>>> from trains being "Pansies?" > >>> > >>> Michael O'Dea > >> > >> I do not care about low crime rates... If I am under attack more than > >> once per day from Winona's moron drivers that have recently become > >> worse than ever before, what does a low crime rate mean if I am dead > >> under someone's tire, as a result from a situation that is completely > >> preventable? The hard realty, a low crime rate means nothing in this > >> situation. > >> > >> * Furthermore, does the Winona Police Department really keep the crime > >> rate low? Could the crime rate be much higher due to items not being > >> reported? Quite possibly underreporting is the case. Officially the > >> crime rate is low compared to what? > >> > >> * Truckers are far better drivers than most of the fools with their > >> cars. If Winona's drivers drove half as well as ninety-nine percent of > >> truckers on the road they would be fifty times better than they are > >> now. > >> > >> * FYI 169.19 subd 5 is the turn signal law. > >> > >> The cops sit their acting like they are making the roads safe with Tom > >> Williams and his cute quotes. When in reality, they are doing nothing. > >> NOTHING! A driver moving three miles an hour faster than the limit > >> does > >> not mean jack. Yet, this is all they seem to focus on in terms of road > >> safety. To Tom's defence, DUI's were also mentioned, that is a plus, > >> they affect others much more than other items, however the assertion > >> of > >> the speed threat compared to other items is total rubbish. > >> > >> * I did not call anyone a pansy. Perhaps, reading my comments would > >> help resolve this. I said the pansies were being affected. When you > >> criticise others check your facts. (You are of course excused from > >> this > >> requirement, if you work for US based media or press establishment > >> since they have proved incapable of doing this themselves.) > >> > >> To answer your question, about who can complain more. The RR > >> homeowners > >> have more of a right to complain than the those complaining about > >> trucks. IMO. I have put up with trucks and trains, both are minor > >> issues (barring the effects of trains on traffic from Mankato Avenue > >> which is a major issue.) > >> > >> Furthermore, if you criticise someone, spell their name right. It is > >> quite disrespectful. It may make your comments more consumable. > >> Criticism: Good, Spelling names wrong: Bad > >> > >> (As for this entire issue, I have commented about this issue before to > >> receive pathetic lip service from the chief of police. Therefore the > >> sarcasm is completely justifiable as nothing has been done and I am > >> trying to bring more awareness to the issue. The only thing that has > >> happened is everything that has been mentioned has intensified > >> recently > >> despite my reduction of miles in this God Forsaken place that some > >> actually regard as a nice place. I fail to see why this is a nice > >> place > >> because Members of A Nice Place do not try to run its members down > >> daily. > >> > >> I should also mention, the police certainly have enough time. (I > >> should > >> say more, but those with the time on the force already know what I am > >> referring to and need no clarification.) > >> > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/onlinedemocracy%40winona.org/msg01213.html > >> ) > >> > >> > >> Have a nice day and do not get plucked by the pathetic drivers of > >> downtown. > >> > >> ******************************************** > >> David Dittmann > >> The Winona police department should receive the John Latsch, Human > >> Rights award for their efforts to curtail sound violence against > >> prissy > >> white people's pansies from jake braking trucks while ignoring a real > >> issue right outside the LEC, drivers not using their turn signals. > >> Those poor, oppressed, white people's pansies were whithering to a > >> miserable death from the noise, until the police department valiantly > >> stepped in and defended those poor oppressed pansies by choosing to > >> enforce local ordinances rather than state laws such as 169.19 subd 5. > > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
