Can you tell me the frequencies in the 6 GHz bands that are desired? 
Are there any modulation limits, as to bandwidth and power output? 
What sort of distances are typically involved?  A 6 foot dish can push
a signal a very long distance or have a very high signal at a shorter
distance.

Lonnie

On 8/6/05, A. Huppenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> $20K is about right for the radios for a licensed path. $500 to $2000
> for the path analysis and license.
> 
> The market has set that price. If 200 ISPs that belong to WISPA
> indicated their interest.. Well Lonnie might make them or someone else.
> The chipsets are there to operate in those bands, getting the FCC to
> allow them to be used in that band is a challenge.
> 
> Whatever anyone wants to say about improve our effiency in using
> existing spectrum, we need to be fighting for more at this point, since
> there will be a swell of DSL users moving to Fixed wireless over the
> next year, as Telcos attempt to dominate that marketplace. Which will
> in-turn cause more congestion on the airwaves. That and the
> Anti-competitive actions of telcos - pricing below cost, are the two
> areas I recommend we all focus on.
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> 
> > Last I heard a guy could get a Harris system (both ends, just radios)
> > for a shade under $20k.  Might be a bit lower now as it's been a
> > couple of years. For a 45 meg system that's pretty high by today's
> > standards.
> >
> > Let me say this again guys.  We're talking LICENSED bands here.
> > Interference isn't an issue no matter what antennas etc. are used.  If
> > you get interference on YOUR band you can make the other guy stop.
> > It's just that simple.
> >
> > I honestly see few down sides to this idea.
> >
> > I'd sure like to see more of the 300 or so companies here chime in.
> > So far it's looking like 2 to 1 that we do nothing.  I must admit I'm
> > more than a bit shocked.
> >
> > Marlon
> > (509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
> > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
> > 42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
> > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
> >
> >
> >> Marlon and Lonnie,
> >>
> >> First Off, Lonnie I fully agree with your point that we should not
> >> suggest rules that discourage good design or make it to easy to do
> >> poor designs.
> >>
> >> However, saying we don't need more spectrum is rediculous, expecially
> >> in these urban areas with lots of competition. We need to gain access
> >> to every ounce of spectrum that we can.
> >>
> >> I FULLY agree with Marlon, that it would be a GREAT idea to find a
> >> way to have 6 Ghz more usable for us.  It is factual that the 6 foot
> >> antenna requirement makes it near impossible for most WISPs to use
> >> the band cost effectively.  I personally am effected by this and
> >> could have need for the band.  However doing away with the large
> >> antenna rule all togeather I think would be a mistake. A PtP band
> >> with safety rules is advantageous. I'd suggest asking to modify the
> >> rules to the extent necessary to make it usable for us.  For example,
> >> what if the min antenna size requirement was reduced down to a 3 ft
> >> dish?  Thats still down to around 5 degrees, and pretty easy getting
> >> approval for a 3 ft dish.
> >>
> >> Marlon, whats the most cost effective 6 Ghz radios on the market
> >> today, excluding the antennas? Just so I understand the ball park we
> >> are talking about. When you say Licenced is still twice the cost,
> >> that doesn't mean much unless you identify wether you were talking
> >> about unlicenced redline or Trango :-)
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General
> >> List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:50 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
> >>
> >>
> >>> I think you guys are wrong on this.  This is still a ptp band and
> >>> it's licensed.  So interference issues can be dealt with.
> >>>
> >>> As for links that are not correctly aimed.  Why in the world would
> >>> we want to give up on what could be a very useful rule change just
> >>> because some minority (probably a very small minority) will likely
> >>> screw up?
> >>>
> >>> Think, instead about how nice it would be if the manufacturers could
> >>> modify today's relatively cheap 5 gig radios to do 6 gig.  It's not
> >>> all that much of a leap.  But today MANY of you couldn't use that
> >>> gear because you'd never be able to mount the antennas.  Or because
> >>> it's licensed gear it's still nearly twice the cost of unlicensed.
> >>>
> >>> It's easy to come up with reasons not to make changes.  A man once
> >>> told me that if no one ever changed we'd still all be eating with
> >>> our fingers. Your points are valid but I don't think they are likely
> >>> enough to happen that it'll matter.  Or we can take steps now to
> >>> deal with those issues. Again, it's a licensed band, interference
> >>> isn't really an issue.  You have protection against that.
> >>>
> >>> I've got a customer in Fresno that's got no place to go with 2.4 or
> >>> 900. He's using VERY high end radios in the 5 gig bands.  Even the
> >>> big boy toys won't work well anymore.  Even ptp links.  He's getting
> >>> by but it's getting much harder all of the time.  He needs the 6 gig
> >>> band to pull some ptp links around but can't use them because of the
> >>> antenna size issue.
> >>>
> >>> And lets not forget about the cost part of the mix.  6' antennas are
> >>> listing for $1800 in the EC cat without a raydome.  That's for a
> >>> good Radio Waves unit, but still.
> >>>
> >>> I really can't see a down side to trying that comes anywhere near
> >>> the potential upside.  I see a few that don't think it's a good
> >>> thing.  Do the rest of you agree with that?  I happen to think that
> >>> anything that gives us more flexibility without letting the bad
> >>> people out there do bad things is a good thing to try to do.
> >>>
> >>> Marlon
> >>> (509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
> >>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
> >>> 42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own
> >>> wisp!
> >>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> >>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> >>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie Nunweiler"
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:28 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> APC is useless if the antennas are not aimed properly or the distance
> >>> is excessive for the antenna gain.  These conditions will cause the
> >>> transmitters to pump out full volume, and if the antennas are your
> >>> lower gain variety that means spraying noise everywhere.
> >>>
> >>> I would recommend leaving the nice tight 6 foot dishes.  That simple
> >>> rule keeps the band clean for those long distance shots, instead of
> >>> polluting it for close in shots.
> >>>
> >>> You guys have to start asking yourself what you are doing wrong if you
> >>> continually need more bands.  The growing trend to higher power and
> >>> wide beam antennas has to stop.  We are now doing a shot with 3 foot
> >>> antennas and the CM9 Atheros radios in the 5 GHz band that is just
> >>> over 52 miles and pulling -71 to -77 dB (variance through the day),
> >>> yet I see people lining and almost drooling for the 400 mW high power
> >>> cards.
> >>>
> >>> In short, most guys have little RF knowledge and they naturally take
> >>> the easy way.  I would expect to see 400 mW cards and patch antennas
> >>> if the rules get changed as you are proposing.
> >>>
> >>> I say that is a mistake.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Lonnie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 8/4/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> For those that don't know, the 6 gig band is licensed ptp only.
> >>>> It's a
> >>>> pretty cheap license and you can get a LOT of throughput for very long
> >>>> distances.
> >>>>
> >>>> For short (less than 50 miles :-) the 6' antenna requirement often
> >>>> kills the
> >>>> deal because of size limits on what towers can handle.  Or the
> >>>> building
> >>>> owner doesn't want such large antennas etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Certainly for something that just shoots a mile or three up the
> >>>> road it's a
> >>>> tough rule to deal with.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not exactly sure how to go about it but I've got the name of
> >>>> the person
> >>>> at the FCC that'll help us if we'd like to request a rule change.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to suggest that we push for elimination of the 6' antenna
> >>>> rule for
> >>>> the 6 gig band.  If people are worried about undue interference in
> >>>> the band
> >>>> due to the wider beam antennas we could toss out an APC (automatic
> >>>> power
> >>>> control) requirement to use smaller antennas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>> Marlon
> >>>> (509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
> >>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
> >>>> 42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own
> >>>> wisp!
> >>>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> >>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> >>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Lonnie Nunweiler
> >>> Valemount Networks Corporation
> >>> http://www.star-os.com/
> >>> --
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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> >>>
> >>
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-- 
Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
--
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