----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] StarOS or Microtik with TRCPQ clients...

> When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND that a
> good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
> decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing
> investments in this business? Licensed or unlicensed? WISPs or a market
> segment that buys only legal product? For Pete's sake people, you think
> your actions don't have actual consequences just because you are staying
> within the legal power limits? Some of you make guys make the jobs of
> guys like me who seriously give a rip real, real hard.

Aw, give it a rest, Patrick.

Valemount's product runs rings around many in terms of features.    So, how
many MILLIONS would it take for Alvarion to produce a box that does what
WISP's need it to do?   Not even as much as you spend producing stuff that
costs too much for some to use.

So, exactly WHO is to blame when software vendor X produces what we REALLY
need, hardware vendor Y produces what we REALLY need,  and the people who
want to have the "secret black boxes"  with unknown guts under the hood
won't listen and learn?

The fact is, that the little guy... the Joe Blow Schmuck is 5 X more capable
of figuring out what it is he wants than a whole team of highly paid product
developers who won't listen.   While you may get engineers to figure out
every last possible means of adjusting the 802.11 MAC and doing really cool
stuff with it, who's to blame for thinking we should BRIDGE our networks
together?    If Schmuck A can figure out how to build a workable board in
China, Schmuck B can find some great working little mini-pci radios with
INDUSTRY STANDARD connectors on both the cpu board and the card and Schmuck
C can figure out how to put a FREE OS together and then develop some drivers
to do the cool RF stuff, and all the rest of us dullard schmucks are still
bright enough to figure out how to PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER and use them to
dramatic advantage over what the engineers and developers keep trying to
foist on us...  Exactly WHO is to blame?

Maybe we're collectivley to blame because we didn't pony 200 bucks up each
and get some lab to FCC certify the assembly?    I dunno.   Exactly WHOSE
fault is that?    I dunno.   I don't know that it's even our fault at all.
Maybe the laws need to be updated to reflect the reality of the industry and
the state of our technology.

> So then while I congratulate Lonnie's innovation, he needs to come clean
> and go legal.

Lonnie's not doing a dang thing illegal.    Well, I hope he's not.   Maybe
he secretly runs stop signs on some back road in a fit of legal defiance...
but certainly neither you nor I would know, now would we?

Sorry Lonnie, but yes if you are doing this it does gall
> me. It galls me when folks outside our borders go around the legal paths
> to our market. It's cheesy. It's dishonest. It's anti-competitive.

Well, Patrick, I AM WITHIN OUR BORDERS and I am going around YOUR borders
because I can produce something far better suited to what I need than all
your engineers and developers combined.   Now tell me, how the bloody hell
that's possible?    Am I some evil monster because I can install an OS on a
board, snap in a minipci card, seal it up in a NEMA4X enclosure and mount it
on a rooftop to get me a freaking bloody WORKING CPE????   One that costs
more, but pays because it has the features and performance and reliability
that exceeds some "certified" products from some manufacturers?

> it's simply illegal. You've done all the work, why not go legal? If not,
> do you have any right to complain if someone copies your soft work and
> sells it as his own? Or do you think, "Hey, that's different, he's
> damaging me!"

Well, hell, now you've got it all laid out for you.   Will we see the $185
linux powered, changeable radio module,  poe, weatherproof rooftop box, AP,
backhaul, etc, w/ all the needed features Alvarion product announced on July
4, 07?    With all the RF knowledge and board design and chipset experience
and programming capabilities that Alvarion SHOULD have in-house, this ought
to be a no-brainer walk in the park, right?

> You guys may not like the rules, but they are there and the rest of us
> have to abide by them and incur all the expense required to play by the
> rules.
> And if you are an operator reading this, do you really think staying
> under the legal power limit makes you righteous? It makes you no more
> righteous that a guy beside you on the tower that does a beautiful NEC
> poster child of an install but does not have legal right to use the
> tower.
> I know many find this attitude insulting and I know as a vendor I'm
> supposed to just hold my tongue so as not to piss people off, because
> there will be those who might say, "Because of that attitude I've never
> buy one Alvarion radio!" Maybe so, but I can accept that because this
> stuff weakens all WISPs claims, all attempts to be regarded as
> legitimate players, and it sucker punches all of us who fight on your
> behalf.

Patrick, you do the above...Your company... OR ANY company, produce the "no
brainer" product and you have a point.   But, hell.  Nobody will.   Why?  Ya
got me, I can't answer it.   Maybe because all of us who know what we want
are Joe Schmuck WISP's  and we haven't the resources.    And what, pray
tell, are you "fighting on our behalf?"   I don't have a clue what Alvarion
has been advocating to the regulators about...   But I do know that a couple
of  the big players in this game are definitely AGAINST us.

> For sure, in doing so you can't ever complain about the person that
> sneaks into the ball game for free, right behind home plate, while you
> and your family paid. Don't you ever complain that your neighbor's kid
> gets a student grant because his parents hide income when yours can't
> qualify because your family makes "too much." Don't you ever complain
> about a rancher or farmer getting over on you on water rights because no
> one's looking. And don't complain about the Yahoo next door using an
> illegal amp.
> Illegal WISPs equivocate by saying, "Hey, I'm within the power limits.
> I'm not hurting anyone." Well, it's not true. You are hurting every
> legitimate WISP and every legitimate vendor, and in turn you hurt the
> entire industry. And some WISPs have the gall to say, why won't someone
> build X? Well, maybe because so many WISPs to save themselves a buck
> will buy illegal product that it discourages investment from legit
> players. When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND
> that a good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
> decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing
> investments?

Yeah, if 3 Joe Blow Schmucks can produce a WRAP board with Star-OS and
produce a performing and featureful FULL SOLUTION for WISP's there's not a
damn reason in the whole freaking world why your organization should NOT
have something 2X as good and 2X the features for 1/2 the price!   Even if
you just had to COPY and produce it with just the already accumulated
in-house knowledge and experience and with the economies of scale of aan
organization your size...   You should be able to beat it.

This should be a COMMODITY, Patrick.   Just like Eveready, Duracell, and
Rayovac produce real competitive battery solutions.     Neither I, nor
anyone I know, can build a battery within miles of what they can.   And it's
cheap.   And they're GOOD.    But a guy in Switzerland,  a couple
programmers in Canada, and a dumb Schmuck in Oregon named Mark with a
backwoodsy WISP, can, in the course of not so long, actually produce
something really GOOD, competitive in performance,  convenient beyond
belief,  excellent value and with all the damn features we want.   The only
thing actually LACKING is FCC certification because nobody's willing to fork
over the bucks, and the fact that by the time they're done, the products are
obsolete and replaced with something new and better.   So, that being the
case, and from my POV, you're WAY  behind the curve, here.

>From my POV, it's the snail's pace and blind-eyed stonewalling from the few
who have obstructed progress for so long, that it has become possible, and
has CREATED this attempt to get AROUND the obstructive industry and GET ON
WITH BUSINESS.    It's truly a sad state of affairs that Alvarion, Trango,
Motorola, and others are truly LATE TO THE PARTY and never seem to catch up
with what a few of us dumb schmucks can do.

> And if I was a legal operator in the same market as an illegal
> competitor, I'd for sure use that against them with respect to winning
> roof and tower rights, fighting their interference in court, and
> informing their customers of the risks. And that'd all be an entirely
> fair and ethical approach.

There's a bumper sticker that says "Lead, follow, or get the hell outa the
way!"    And, from this guys' POV,  you're complaining because you thought
the road to heaven ran through your tollbooth and instead we've found a

heck, maybe if we could get the certifying business down to a commodity with
the help of some FCC policy changes,  maybe we could all get in the letter
of the law compliance instead of waiting year after year for the wagon train
up front to get outa the way of this train!

> Rant off. Sigh. G'night. Be safe this New Years. ...and BE LEGAL!

Honestly, rant off... Happy new year to you, as well...


neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington
email me at mark at neofast dot net
Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net

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