If its VL is 56 Volts, I'm wondering if Alvarion will work with all those left over Metrocom/Richochet 56V Power plants?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Well, it was time to stir the pot for the new year...


VL CPE ship with the cable, pre-terminated. As for management, you can use telnet or SNMP with both standard and proprietary MIBs. We do not permit Web-based for security reasons and you can restrict management access to specific IP addresses and/or directions (from the Ethernet side or the wireless side). You can also auto configure using an FTP or TFTP file (for batch, network wide, or specific units).

As for the router feature thing, I believe most of that arises from people's experience with 802.11b and the belief that since we don't have routing than everyone must be able to see everyone on an Alvarion network. That is not the case for a number of reasons. One such reason is our support of Ethernet Broadcast Filtering:

The Ethernet Broadcast Filtering menu enables defining the layer 2 (Ethernet) broadcast and multicast filtering capabilities for the selected SU. Filtering the Ethernet broadcasts enhances the security of the system and saves bandwidth on the wireless medium by blocking protocols that are typically used in the customer's LAN but are not relevant for other customers, such as NetBios, which is used by the Microsoft Network Neighborhood. Enabling this feature blocks Ethernet broadcasts and multicasts by setting the I/G bit at the destination address to 1. This feature should not be enabled when there is a router behind the SU.
The Ethernet Broadcast Filtering menu includes the following parameters:
􀂄 Filter Options
􀂄 DHCP Broadcast Override Filter
􀂄 PPPoE Broadcast Override Filter
􀂄 ARP Broadcast Override Filter

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Well, it was time to stir the pot for the new year...

And now to stir it in the other direction....

If Alvarion is serious about making the VL platform their new standard
bearer for residential, there is a little bit of work to be done.  While
I understand the need for non-standard items at times, things like the
special ethernet cable, non-standard management interface (snmp, not
telnet or web based) and lack of simple routing capability are pretty
big problems.  I am seriously considering VL for some future
deployments, but I will have to invest a fair amount of time retraining
my techs and installers on how to properly deal with it.  The main
Alvarion competitors (Motorola, Trango, Tranzeo) do a pretty good job of
having simple installation processes with standard procedures for
cabling, web interfaces to change settings in the field and some simple
routing capabilities.  If there is a scalability issue with VL, it is in
these installation limitations.

Ok, now.....<RANT MODE ON>

I have a really hard time having a lot of respect for the legal and
enforcement framework surrounding not just the broadband wireless
industry but the ISP business in general.  The Telecom Act of '96 has
been completely gutted by lawyers, lobbyists and the current
administration into a toothless tiger.  Unlicensed wireless gear for
broadband only exists because of a loophole - when the bands were
created it was not thought to be feasible to deliver any kind of
reliable connection in noisy, interference prone spectrum.  Cell phone
company valuations are based in large part on the value of their
spectrum holdings, and the government is dependent on spectrum auctions
to help fund other activities, so the idea of unlicensed spectrum is
kryptonite for big businesses and many in government that shudder at the
thought of not having complete control over all things telecom related.

Simply put, we aren't supposed to exist, and the system is heavily
stacked against us.

So when I hear people saying things like "the only thing that can take
out Canopy is other Canopy" and that it hurts the entire industry to use
gear that may or may not be entirely legal (even if it fulfills the
technical requirements of legality but hasn't passed the "paperwork"
test) - I laugh quietly and to myself.  Here's why...

Thinking that one kind of unlicensed is going to be the Darwinian
"survivor" of the unlicensed spectrum wars is also folly.  If it is
unlicensed, it can be taken out - and it can be taken out legally.  Yes,
Canopy too.  It takes special resources to build a nuclear bomb, but it
doesn't take much to build the unlicensed spectrum equivalent of a
nuclear bomb.   So you Motorola guys can get off your high horse, when
the bomb goes off you are just as cooked as the guy using wifi based
gear.  Licensed guys aren't exactly immune either.  WiMax isn't designed
to handle interference well, so I would imagine that those neat
self-install WiMax CPE radios have a lovely time when the neighbor kid
turns on his hacked Linksys router running in 2.5ghz and the noise floor
goes through the roof.

There are lots of folks using products that aren't "legal" and they are
going to get away with it because the law is unenforcable.  Yes, there
are examples of people who will get fined, and probably a few
high-profile cases to scare the rest.  But there are millions of
software definable chipsets out there that can be modified to do all
kinds of crazy things in both unlicensed AND licensed spectrum.  The cat
is out of the bag, and our current legislative structure has no hope of
getting it back in.  Running an omni at 40db in 2.4ghz is about as
serious an infraction as downloading "unlicensed" music from Bit
Torrent, and both have an equal probability of being prosecuted.

DISCLAIMER:  All of the systems that I have deployed now have certs for
the radio/amp/antenna combinations and run at or below the allowed power
for the band.  Just because I don't like the system doesn't mean that
I'm going to start the revolution and flaunt the rules.

The saddest thing to me is seeing the faces at ISPCON and thinking about
how many more used to be around a few years ago.  I look at guys like
Travis Johnson, John Scrivner or Rick Harnish and wonder about the other
ten guys that used to be there.  They are probably  insurance salesmen
or working in a used car lot somewhere after their ISP either folded up
or was gobbled up by a big operator when it was clear that things were
not sustainable.  When I think about how close I was to that same fate,
I start to wonder what good did the legal framework do for the
independent ISP?  UNE and reciprocal comp are gone - wholesale rates for
DSL are higher than the retail rates that the ILEC charge and now the
modem pool providers are starting to feel the heat.  We've got
unlicensed wireless, and it was so worthless that it is called the "junk
band".   The real tragedy is the death of so many ISPs, and the loss of
innovation with it.


OK, I'm done now.   Have to catch up on sleep cycles.

Matt Larsen

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] StarOS or Microtik with TRCPQ clients...

When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND that a
good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing
investments in this business? Licensed or unlicensed? WISPs or a market
segment that buys only legal product? For Pete's sake people, you think
your actions don't have actual consequences just because you are staying
within the legal power limits? Some of you make guys make the jobs of
guys like me who seriously give a rip real, real hard.

Aw, give it a rest, Patrick.

Valemount's product runs rings around many in terms of features. So, how
many MILLIONS would it take for Alvarion to produce a box that does what
WISP's need it to do? Not even as much as you spend producing stuff that
costs too much for some to use.

So, exactly WHO is to blame when software vendor X produces what we REALLY
need, hardware vendor Y produces what we REALLY need,  and the people who
want to have the "secret black boxes"  with unknown guts under the hood
won't listen and learn?

The fact is, that the little guy... the Joe Blow Schmuck is 5 X more capable of figuring out what it is he wants than a whole team of highly paid product
developers who won't listen.   While you may get engineers to figure out
every last possible means of adjusting the 802.11 MAC and doing really cool
stuff with it, who's to blame for thinking we should BRIDGE our networks
together?    If Schmuck A can figure out how to build a workable board in
China, Schmuck B can find some great working little mini-pci radios with
INDUSTRY STANDARD connectors on both the cpu board and the card and Schmuck C can figure out how to put a FREE OS together and then develop some drivers to do the cool RF stuff, and all the rest of us dullard schmucks are still
bright enough to figure out how to PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER and use them to
dramatic advantage over what the engineers and developers keep trying to
foist on us...  Exactly WHO is to blame?

Maybe we're collectivley to blame because we didn't pony 200 bucks up each
and get some lab to FCC certify the assembly?    I dunno.   Exactly WHOSE
fault is that? I dunno. I don't know that it's even our fault at all. Maybe the laws need to be updated to reflect the reality of the industry and
the state of our technology.

So then while I congratulate Lonnie's innovation, he needs to come clean
and go legal.

Lonnie's not doing a dang thing illegal. Well, I hope he's not. Maybe he secretly runs stop signs on some back road in a fit of legal defiance...
but certainly neither you nor I would know, now would we?

Sorry Lonnie, but yes if you are doing this it does gall

me. It galls me when folks outside our borders go around the legal paths
to our market. It's cheesy. It's dishonest. It's anti-competitive.

Well, Patrick, I AM WITHIN OUR BORDERS and I am going around YOUR borders
because I can produce something far better suited to what I need than all
your engineers and developers combined. Now tell me, how the bloody hell that's possible? Am I some evil monster because I can install an OS on a board, snap in a minipci card, seal it up in a NEMA4X enclosure and mount it
on a rooftop to get me a freaking bloody WORKING CPE????   One that costs
more, but pays because it has the features and performance and reliability
that exceeds some "certified" products from some manufacturers?


it's simply illegal. You've done all the work, why not go legal? If not,
do you have any right to complain if someone copies your soft work and
sells it as his own? Or do you think, "Hey, that's different, he's
damaging me!"

Well, hell, now you've got it all laid out for you. Will we see the $185 linux powered, changeable radio module, poe, weatherproof rooftop box, AP, backhaul, etc, w/ all the needed features Alvarion product announced on July 4, 07? With all the RF knowledge and board design and chipset experience and programming capabilities that Alvarion SHOULD have in-house, this ought
to be a no-brainer walk in the park, right?

You guys may not like the rules, but they are there and the rest of us
have to abide by them and incur all the expense required to play by the

And if you are an operator reading this, do you really think staying
under the legal power limit makes you righteous? It makes you no more
righteous that a guy beside you on the tower that does a beautiful NEC
poster child of an install but does not have legal right to use the

I know many find this attitude insulting and I know as a vendor I'm
supposed to just hold my tongue so as not to piss people off, because
there will be those who might say, "Because of that attitude I've never
buy one Alvarion radio!" Maybe so, but I can accept that because this
stuff weakens all WISPs claims, all attempts to be regarded as
legitimate players, and it sucker punches all of us who fight on your

Patrick, you do the above...Your company... OR ANY company, produce the "no brainer" product and you have a point. But, hell. Nobody will. Why? Ya got me, I can't answer it. Maybe because all of us who know what we want
are Joe Schmuck WISP's  and we haven't the resources.    And what, pray
tell, are you "fighting on our behalf?" I don't have a clue what Alvarion has been advocating to the regulators about... But I do know that a couple
of  the big players in this game are definitely AGAINST us.

For sure, in doing so you can't ever complain about the person that
sneaks into the ball game for free, right behind home plate, while you
and your family paid. Don't you ever complain that your neighbor's kid
gets a student grant because his parents hide income when yours can't
qualify because your family makes "too much." Don't you ever complain
about a rancher or farmer getting over on you on water rights because no
one's looking. And don't complain about the Yahoo next door using an
illegal amp.

Illegal WISPs equivocate by saying, "Hey, I'm within the power limits.
I'm not hurting anyone." Well, it's not true. You are hurting every
legitimate WISP and every legitimate vendor, and in turn you hurt the
entire industry. And some WISPs have the gall to say, why won't someone
build X? Well, maybe because so many WISPs to save themselves a buck
will buy illegal product that it discourages investment from legit
players. When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND
that a good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing

Yeah, if 3 Joe Blow Schmucks can produce a WRAP board with Star-OS and
produce a performing and featureful FULL SOLUTION for WISP's there's not a
damn reason in the whole freaking world why your organization should NOT
have something 2X as good and 2X the features for 1/2 the price! Even if
you just had to COPY and produce it with just the already accumulated
in-house knowledge and experience and with the economies of scale of aan
organization your size...   You should be able to beat it.

This should be a COMMODITY, Patrick.   Just like Eveready, Duracell, and
Rayovac produce real competitive battery solutions.     Neither I, nor
anyone I know, can build a battery within miles of what they can. And it's
cheap.   And they're GOOD.    But a guy in Switzerland,  a couple
programmers in Canada, and a dumb Schmuck in Oregon named Mark with a
backwoodsy WISP, can, in the course of not so long, actually produce
something really GOOD, competitive in performance,  convenient beyond
belief, excellent value and with all the damn features we want. The only thing actually LACKING is FCC certification because nobody's willing to fork over the bucks, and the fact that by the time they're done, the products are
obsolete and replaced with something new and better.   So, that being the
case, and from my POV, you're WAY  behind the curve, here.

>From my POV, it's the snail's pace and blind-eyed stonewalling from the >few who have obstructed progress for so long, that it has become possible, and has CREATED this attempt to get AROUND the obstructive industry and GET ON WITH BUSINESS. It's truly a sad state of affairs that Alvarion, Trango, Motorola, and others are truly LATE TO THE PARTY and never seem to catch up
with what a few of us dumb schmucks can do.

And if I was a legal operator in the same market as an illegal
competitor, I'd for sure use that against them with respect to winning
roof and tower rights, fighting their interference in court, and
informing their customers of the risks. And that'd all be an entirely
fair and ethical approach.

There's a bumper sticker that says "Lead, follow, or get the hell outa the way!" And, from this guys' POV, you're complaining because you thought
the road to heaven ran through your tollbooth and instead we've found a

heck, maybe if we could get the certifying business down to a commodity with the help of some FCC policy changes, maybe we could all get in the letter of the law compliance instead of waiting year after year for the wagon train
up front to get outa the way of this train!

Rant off. Sigh. G'night. Be safe this New Years. ...and BE LEGAL!

Honestly, rant off... Happy new year to you, as well...


neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington
email me at mark at neofast dot net
Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net

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