Matt,

VL CPE ship with the cable, pre-terminated. As for management, you can use 
telnet or SNMP with both standard and proprietary MIBs. We do not permit 
Web-based for security reasons and you can restrict management access to 
specific IP addresses and/or directions (from the Ethernet side or the wireless 
side). You can also auto configure using an FTP or TFTP file (for batch, 
network wide, or specific units).

As for the router feature thing, I believe most of that arises from people's 
experience with 802.11b and the belief that since we don't have routing than 
everyone must be able to see everyone on an Alvarion network. That is not the 
case for a number of reasons. One such reason is our support of Ethernet 
Broadcast Filtering:

The Ethernet Broadcast Filtering menu enables defining the layer 2 (Ethernet) 
broadcast and multicast filtering capabilities for the selected SU. Filtering 
the Ethernet broadcasts enhances the security of the system and saves bandwidth 
on the wireless medium by blocking protocols that are typically used in the 
customer's LAN but are not relevant for other customers, such as NetBios, which 
is used by the Microsoft Network Neighborhood. Enabling this feature blocks 
Ethernet broadcasts and multicasts by setting the I/G bit at the destination 
address to 1. This feature should not be enabled when there is a router behind 
the SU.
The Ethernet Broadcast Filtering menu includes the following parameters:
􀂄 Filter Options
􀂄 DHCP Broadcast Override Filter
􀂄 PPPoE Broadcast Override Filter
􀂄 ARP Broadcast Override Filter 

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - 
Lists
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Well, it was time to stir the pot for the new year...

And now to stir it in the other direction....

If Alvarion is serious about making the VL platform their new standard 
bearer for residential, there is a little bit of work to be done.  While 
I understand the need for non-standard items at times, things like the 
special ethernet cable, non-standard management interface (snmp, not 
telnet or web based) and lack of simple routing capability are pretty 
big problems.  I am seriously considering VL for some future 
deployments, but I will have to invest a fair amount of time retraining 
my techs and installers on how to properly deal with it.  The main 
Alvarion competitors (Motorola, Trango, Tranzeo) do a pretty good job of 
having simple installation processes with standard procedures for 
cabling, web interfaces to change settings in the field and some simple 
routing capabilities.  If there is a scalability issue with VL, it is in 
these installation limitations.

Ok, now.....<RANT MODE ON>

I have a really hard time having a lot of respect for the legal and 
enforcement framework surrounding not just the broadband wireless 
industry but the ISP business in general.  The Telecom Act of '96 has 
been completely gutted by lawyers, lobbyists and the current 
administration into a toothless tiger.  Unlicensed wireless gear for 
broadband only exists because of a loophole - when the bands were 
created it was not thought to be feasible to deliver any kind of 
reliable connection in noisy, interference prone spectrum.  Cell phone 
company valuations are based in large part on the value of their 
spectrum holdings, and the government is dependent on spectrum auctions 
to help fund other activities, so the idea of unlicensed spectrum is 
kryptonite for big businesses and many in government that shudder at the 
thought of not having complete control over all things telecom related.

Simply put, we aren't supposed to exist, and the system is heavily 
stacked against us.

So when I hear people saying things like "the only thing that can take 
out Canopy is other Canopy" and that it hurts the entire industry to use 
gear that may or may not be entirely legal (even if it fulfills the 
technical requirements of legality but hasn't passed the "paperwork" 
test) - I laugh quietly and to myself.  Here's why...

Thinking that one kind of unlicensed is going to be the Darwinian 
"survivor" of the unlicensed spectrum wars is also folly.  If it is 
unlicensed, it can be taken out - and it can be taken out legally.  Yes, 
Canopy too.  It takes special resources to build a nuclear bomb, but it 
doesn't take much to build the unlicensed spectrum equivalent of a 
nuclear bomb.   So you Motorola guys can get off your high horse, when 
the bomb goes off you are just as cooked as the guy using wifi based 
gear.  Licensed guys aren't exactly immune either.  WiMax isn't designed 
to handle interference well, so I would imagine that those neat 
self-install WiMax CPE radios have a lovely time when the neighbor kid 
turns on his hacked Linksys router running in 2.5ghz and the noise floor 
goes through the roof.

There are lots of folks using products that aren't "legal" and they are 
going to get away with it because the law is unenforcable.  Yes, there 
are examples of people who will get fined, and probably a few 
high-profile cases to scare the rest.  But there are millions of 
software definable chipsets out there that can be modified to do all 
kinds of crazy things in both unlicensed AND licensed spectrum.  The cat 
is out of the bag, and our current legislative structure has no hope of 
getting it back in.  Running an omni at 40db in 2.4ghz is about as 
serious an infraction as downloading "unlicensed" music from Bit 
Torrent, and both have an equal probability of being prosecuted.

DISCLAIMER:  All of the systems that I have deployed now have certs for 
the radio/amp/antenna combinations and run at or below the allowed power 
for the band.  Just because I don't like the system doesn't mean that 
I'm going to start the revolution and flaunt the rules.

The saddest thing to me is seeing the faces at ISPCON and thinking about 
how many more used to be around a few years ago.  I look at guys like 
Travis Johnson, John Scrivner or Rick Harnish and wonder about the other 
ten guys that used to be there.  They are probably  insurance salesmen 
or working in a used car lot somewhere after their ISP either folded up 
or was gobbled up by a big operator when it was clear that things were 
not sustainable.  When I think about how close I was to that same fate, 
I start to wonder what good did the legal framework do for the 
independent ISP?  UNE and reciprocal comp are gone - wholesale rates for 
DSL are higher than the retail rates that the ILEC charge and now the 
modem pool providers are starting to feel the heat.  We've got 
unlicensed wireless, and it was so worthless that it is called the "junk 
band".   The real tragedy is the death of so many ISPs, and the loss of 
innovation with it.

</RANT MODE OFF>

OK, I'm done now.   Have to catch up on sleep cycles. 

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:52 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] StarOS or Microtik with TRCPQ clients...
>
>
>   
>> When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND that a
>> good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
>> decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing
>> investments in this business? Licensed or unlicensed? WISPs or a market
>> segment that buys only legal product? For Pete's sake people, you think
>> your actions don't have actual consequences just because you are staying
>> within the legal power limits? Some of you make guys make the jobs of
>> guys like me who seriously give a rip real, real hard.
>>     
>
> Aw, give it a rest, Patrick.
>
> Valemount's product runs rings around many in terms of features.    So, how
> many MILLIONS would it take for Alvarion to produce a box that does what
> WISP's need it to do?   Not even as much as you spend producing stuff that
> costs too much for some to use.
>
> So, exactly WHO is to blame when software vendor X produces what we REALLY
> need, hardware vendor Y produces what we REALLY need,  and the people who
> want to have the "secret black boxes"  with unknown guts under the hood
> won't listen and learn?
>
> The fact is, that the little guy... the Joe Blow Schmuck is 5 X more capable
> of figuring out what it is he wants than a whole team of highly paid product
> developers who won't listen.   While you may get engineers to figure out
> every last possible means of adjusting the 802.11 MAC and doing really cool
> stuff with it, who's to blame for thinking we should BRIDGE our networks
> together?    If Schmuck A can figure out how to build a workable board in
> China, Schmuck B can find some great working little mini-pci radios with
> INDUSTRY STANDARD connectors on both the cpu board and the card and Schmuck
> C can figure out how to put a FREE OS together and then develop some drivers
> to do the cool RF stuff, and all the rest of us dullard schmucks are still
> bright enough to figure out how to PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER and use them to
> dramatic advantage over what the engineers and developers keep trying to
> foist on us...  Exactly WHO is to blame?
>
> Maybe we're collectivley to blame because we didn't pony 200 bucks up each
> and get some lab to FCC certify the assembly?    I dunno.   Exactly WHOSE
> fault is that?    I dunno.   I don't know that it's even our fault at all.
> Maybe the laws need to be updated to reflect the reality of the industry and
> the state of our technology.
>
>   
>> So then while I congratulate Lonnie's innovation, he needs to come clean
>> and go legal.
>>     
>
> Lonnie's not doing a dang thing illegal.    Well, I hope he's not.   Maybe
> he secretly runs stop signs on some back road in a fit of legal defiance...
> but certainly neither you nor I would know, now would we?
>
> Sorry Lonnie, but yes if you are doing this it does gall
>   
>> me. It galls me when folks outside our borders go around the legal paths
>> to our market. It's cheesy. It's dishonest. It's anti-competitive.
>>     
>
> Well, Patrick, I AM WITHIN OUR BORDERS and I am going around YOUR borders
> because I can produce something far better suited to what I need than all
> your engineers and developers combined.   Now tell me, how the bloody hell
> that's possible?    Am I some evil monster because I can install an OS on a
> board, snap in a minipci card, seal it up in a NEMA4X enclosure and mount it
> on a rooftop to get me a freaking bloody WORKING CPE????   One that costs
> more, but pays because it has the features and performance and reliability
> that exceeds some "certified" products from some manufacturers?
>
>  And
>   
>> it's simply illegal. You've done all the work, why not go legal? If not,
>> do you have any right to complain if someone copies your soft work and
>> sells it as his own? Or do you think, "Hey, that's different, he's
>> damaging me!"
>>     
>
> Well, hell, now you've got it all laid out for you.   Will we see the $185
> linux powered, changeable radio module,  poe, weatherproof rooftop box, AP,
> backhaul, etc, w/ all the needed features Alvarion product announced on July
> 4, 07?    With all the RF knowledge and board design and chipset experience
> and programming capabilities that Alvarion SHOULD have in-house, this ought
> to be a no-brainer walk in the park, right?
>
>   
>> You guys may not like the rules, but they are there and the rest of us
>> have to abide by them and incur all the expense required to play by the
>> rules.
>>
>> And if you are an operator reading this, do you really think staying
>> under the legal power limit makes you righteous? It makes you no more
>> righteous that a guy beside you on the tower that does a beautiful NEC
>> poster child of an install but does not have legal right to use the
>> tower.
>>
>> I know many find this attitude insulting and I know as a vendor I'm
>> supposed to just hold my tongue so as not to piss people off, because
>> there will be those who might say, "Because of that attitude I've never
>> buy one Alvarion radio!" Maybe so, but I can accept that because this
>> stuff weakens all WISPs claims, all attempts to be regarded as
>> legitimate players, and it sucker punches all of us who fight on your
>> behalf.
>>     
>
> Patrick, you do the above...Your company... OR ANY company, produce the "no
> brainer" product and you have a point.   But, hell.  Nobody will.   Why?  Ya
> got me, I can't answer it.   Maybe because all of us who know what we want
> are Joe Schmuck WISP's  and we haven't the resources.    And what, pray
> tell, are you "fighting on our behalf?"   I don't have a clue what Alvarion
> has been advocating to the regulators about...   But I do know that a couple
> of  the big players in this game are definitely AGAINST us.
>
>   
>> For sure, in doing so you can't ever complain about the person that
>> sneaks into the ball game for free, right behind home plate, while you
>> and your family paid. Don't you ever complain that your neighbor's kid
>> gets a student grant because his parents hide income when yours can't
>> qualify because your family makes "too much." Don't you ever complain
>> about a rancher or farmer getting over on you on water rights because no
>> one's looking. And don't complain about the Yahoo next door using an
>> illegal amp.
>>
>> Illegal WISPs equivocate by saying, "Hey, I'm within the power limits.
>> I'm not hurting anyone." Well, it's not true. You are hurting every
>> legitimate WISP and every legitimate vendor, and in turn you hurt the
>> entire industry. And some WISPs have the gall to say, why won't someone
>> build X? Well, maybe because so many WISPs to save themselves a buck
>> will buy illegal product that it discourages investment from legit
>> players. When a market knows it must contend with fraudulent product AND
>> that a good percentage of that market will support the fraud, what's the
>> decision you think vendors will make when it comes to prioritizing
>> investments?
>>     
>
> Yeah, if 3 Joe Blow Schmucks can produce a WRAP board with Star-OS and
> produce a performing and featureful FULL SOLUTION for WISP's there's not a
> damn reason in the whole freaking world why your organization should NOT
> have something 2X as good and 2X the features for 1/2 the price!   Even if
> you just had to COPY and produce it with just the already accumulated
> in-house knowledge and experience and with the economies of scale of aan
> organization your size...   You should be able to beat it.
>
> This should be a COMMODITY, Patrick.   Just like Eveready, Duracell, and
> Rayovac produce real competitive battery solutions.     Neither I, nor
> anyone I know, can build a battery within miles of what they can.   And it's
> cheap.   And they're GOOD.    But a guy in Switzerland,  a couple
> programmers in Canada, and a dumb Schmuck in Oregon named Mark with a
> backwoodsy WISP, can, in the course of not so long, actually produce
> something really GOOD, competitive in performance,  convenient beyond
> belief,  excellent value and with all the damn features we want.   The only
> thing actually LACKING is FCC certification because nobody's willing to fork
> over the bucks, and the fact that by the time they're done, the products are
> obsolete and replaced with something new and better.   So, that being the
> case, and from my POV, you're WAY  behind the curve, here.
>
> >From my POV, it's the snail's pace and blind-eyed stonewalling from the few
> who have obstructed progress for so long, that it has become possible, and
> has CREATED this attempt to get AROUND the obstructive industry and GET ON
> WITH BUSINESS.    It's truly a sad state of affairs that Alvarion, Trango,
> Motorola, and others are truly LATE TO THE PARTY and never seem to catch up
> with what a few of us dumb schmucks can do.
>
>   
>> And if I was a legal operator in the same market as an illegal
>> competitor, I'd for sure use that against them with respect to winning
>> roof and tower rights, fighting their interference in court, and
>> informing their customers of the risks. And that'd all be an entirely
>> fair and ethical approach.
>>     
>
> There's a bumper sticker that says "Lead, follow, or get the hell outa the
> way!"    And, from this guys' POV,  you're complaining because you thought
> the road to heaven ran through your tollbooth and instead we've found a
> shortcut.
>
> heck, maybe if we could get the certifying business down to a commodity with
> the help of some FCC policy changes,  maybe we could all get in the letter
> of the law compliance instead of waiting year after year for the wagon train
> up front to get outa the way of this train!
>
>
>
>   
>> Rant off. Sigh. G'night. Be safe this New Years. ...and BE LEGAL!
>>     
>
> Honestly, rant off... Happy new year to you, as well...
>
> AND GET A MOVE ON ALREADY!
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington
> email me at mark at neofast dot net
> 541-969-8200
> Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net
>
>   

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