On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>>This is correct.  There was some money available to assist, but 
>>not enough for 100% of the cost involved.  I'm not going into the 
>>politics involved here, but I can imagine the logistical nightmare 
>>of trying to oversee moneys to assist ISPs with doing the same 
>>thing.  Either way, WISPA's standard makes this a moot point, as 
>>the real cost is VERY minimal (actually, nearly $0) for MOST WISPs 
>>to become compliant.
>I can't imagine how this is true.  Are you attempting to tell me 
>that all of you operate with a single point of failure?

Where do you get "single point of failure" from what I said?  Either 
way, I can tell you if you are using (for example) Mikrotik as your 
AP solution, then your cost to become CALEA compliant is EXACTLY $0 
other than any legal fees you may incur if you have someone assist 
you with that part.  Same is true for ImageStream routers.  Also, 
there is work afoot in the Linux community.  I still don't see the 
"single point of failure" in any of this.

>>1. It forces the industry to decide on an "industry standard" 
>>method for delivering the data.  The WISPA CALEA Standard does 
>This is completely broken, unrepairable.  The methodology is simply 
>not compatible with intelligent network design.

Tell me what is "broken" about it.  What "intelligent" design do you 
use that makes it so hard to capture the data required?  I can't 
imagine ANY professionally built system that CAN'T be EASILY made 
compliant under the WCS.  Of course, you probably know more than I 
do, being that I only helped write the danged thing.

>>2. It places requirements on LEA for proving to a judge the need 
>>for the data.  This means that there are limits to the types of 
>>data, as well as the volume of the data that an LEA can get.

>This has always been the case, and has nothing to do with technical 
>mandates on network design and function.

This is precisely correct (to a point).  The truth of the matter is 
that CALEA by itself is NOT a "technical mandate".  It is simply 
what I told you it was.  The WCS defines some technical 
requirements, but that is because CALEA requires an INDUSTRY 
STANDARD.  Perhaps it is the "industry standard" that you have a 
problem with.  I know that the 9 or 10 of us that spent HUNDREDS OF 
HOURS of our time building the standard would have appreciated your 
technical input (being a guru on network design and all) but you 
were simply not around to help.  You had decided that ignoring the 
LAW was a better approach.  I certainly hope for your sake that you 
are never served...the attitude you display here virtually 
guarantees the steepest of fines, then your self-fulfilling prophecy 
will be true.

>This is established law clear back to the signing of the 
>Constitution. Can't figure out what CALEA has to do with this, 
>other than it mentions this again.

Then you haven't done enough research.  You are too busy thinking 
that ANY government is bad government to see what the law says.

>>If you come into this discussion with the notion that CALEA is 
>>about forcing ISPs to do anything, then you are looking at it in 
>>the wrong way.
>No, it is just one more nail in our coffin, removing what I 
>consider to be the single greatest advantage to using wireless 

Ok..what exactly IS that advantage to wireless that CALEA removes? 
I see very few posts from you that are anything other than 
complaints about the government overstepping it's bounds and WISPA 
didn't stop them, so a new approach from you would be of interest.

>Let 'er rip, Butch...  repressed anger raises blood pressure more 
>than expressed anger :)

I have no "repressed anger" over this.  Like you, I expressed my 
disdain about the FCC decision to include us under the CALEA 
"umbrella".  The only difference is that I don't think "pissing in 
the wind" is a good way of life, so I moved on to the "make my life 
and work function within the law I don't like" phase.  Have you ever 
lived there?

*Butch Evans                    *Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering            *MikroTik RouterOS                 *
*573-276-2879                   *ImageStream                       *
*http://www.butchevans.com/     *StarOS and MORE                   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/    *Wired or wireless Networks        *
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer    *

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