That would be great... but is there a time frame?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> There are companies out there working on non-802.11 3.65 GHz systems that 
> provide the same spectral efficiency as WiMAX, but without the WiMAX hype 
> price tag.
>
>
> ----------
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>
> From: Travis Johnson 
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:30 AM
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65
>
>
> Matt,
>
> I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some 3.65ghz AP's on 
> our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage customers to that. However, until 
> base stations are less than $8k, the WiMax people can keep spending money on 
> advertising, trade-shows, etc. telling us how great they are, I'm not going 
> to buy.
>
> When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less antennas), and 
> you know the company is making money, there is no reason 3.65ghz base 
> stations have to be $8k+.
>
> Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an entire 
> market they are missing.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: 
> I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead of 
> Mikrotik.   It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools such as 
> radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific hardware to 
> work with instead of having to use a limited, proprietary system limited 
> to a single vendor.  I've deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g networks 
> representing 8000+ CPE units and it can be made to work just fine as 
> long as it is managed properly.   Travis is a pro, and he has the 
> experience to design his network in such a way as to maximize the 
> performance of his equipment.   There are many others out there having 
> the same success. 
>
> FWIW, I believe the most logical next step is to start moving heavy 
> usage customers over to 3.65 WiMAX gear starting next spring.   I think 
> we are near the threshold of what is going to be possible with 
> unlicensed equipment - barring some kind of amazing breakthrough.   I 
> foresee a need to deploy smaller and smaller cells to maintain the 
> desired performance level.  It helps to have 10mhz channel sizes 
> available to maximize the utilization of existing spectrum, but even 
> that is starting to get awfully crowded.   Whitespaces sure would help.
>
> I spent the last two years putting up 802.11a based APs across my entire 
> service area and migrating customers from 2.4 to them to get the higher 
> ARPU from faster speeds and VOIP service.   I foresee spending the next 
> two years deploying  licensed backhauls and 3.65 APs starting with the 
> high traffic areas and working out to the fringes.   Its the neverending 
> story.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>  
>
> Travis Johnson wrote:
>   Hi,
>
> We don't use DHCP. Every single customer gets a real, static IP address. 
> We also a assign a static IP address to every radio (for management).
>
> When I posted the question a month ago about how to force an SM to 
> connect to a specific AP on a tower, the only answer was "color code". 
> This isn't really an option, as that means the installer has to change 
> the color code in the field. All of our current radios are setup and 
> ready to connect to ANY tower and ANY AP on that tower without the 
> installer doing anything in the field.
>
> And how does first level tech support even find the correct radio in the 
> AP list for a customer on the phone? They have to scroll through 160 
> people to find them by MAC address?
>
> Yes, Canopy is a slower radio in today's world. 14Mbps of total 
> throughput on a 20mhz channel is SLOW. Using Mikrotik I can get 30Mbps 
> (double the speed) on the same channel size. Or I can use a 10mhz 
> channel and get 15Mbps. And all these speeds can be delivered via upload 
> or download or any combination, I don't have to set a specific 
> percentage of up/down.
>
> And how do you guarantee 7ms latency? What happens if a customer gets 
> 8ms? And how do they test that measurement? And what happens when a 
> customer completely clobbers an AP and 160 customers are getting 20ms 
> latency? Or you have interference from a new provider and all those 
> people get 100ms latency?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>   
>     All of the complaints are easily overcome with the proper management 
> software, DHCP reservations etc.  You can easily force the SM to connect to 
> the exact AP you want a couple different ways.  And there are several non 
> motorola software packages that do this kind of stuff.  We have 5000 subs on 
> it and we don't break a sweat in managing any of this.
>
> We put 128-160 customers per AP and they all still get 10.2 Mbps burst.  
> Slower radio?  That seems pretty fast to me.
> And we guarantee latency to 7 mS.  Hmmm, that is pretty hard to do with 
> anyone else.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:39 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers
>
>
>   We've tried Canopy... twice in fact... once about 3 years ago, and once 
> about a month ago. We just can't make it fit into our network management (IP 
> database, Call tracking, customer management, etc.) system very well... 
> having customer radios that change their LUID and IP address every time they 
> register, having to set the bandwidth on each SM instead of the AP, having no 
> security or ways to control which AP a customer connects to without having to 
> buy their software, etc.
>
>   All that, plus paying MORE for a slower radio than what we are using just 
> didn't make sense. I can put up an AP (2.4ghz, 5.3ghz, 5.4ghz, or 5.8ghz) for 
> less than 
>   $400 that will support 50 customers, using only 10mhz wide channels... and 
> each CPE is less than $175 complete (including PoE, antenna).
>
>   Canopy seems to work well for many people... but I've never been one to 
> follow the "norm". And I get to put $50 in my pocket on every install, and 
> $1,000 for every AP we put up. ;)
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: 
> Well that is a testimony to your quality of service for sure.
> Now, if you were using Canopy your customers would be even happier!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers
>
>
>   I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing "up to 4meg" for $29.95
> with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider (doing "up to
> 2meg", mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of competition... and yet we
> have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and more installs
> than we can keep up with each month.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>     You must not have competitors.  I have both Qwest and Comcast giving away 
> multi megabit starting at $15.95
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Travis Johnson
>   To: WISPA General List
>   Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers
>
>
>   I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have to? 
> Most people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular 
> package for $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). Why give 
> away the farm if you don't have to? :)
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   RickG wrote:
> Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.
>
> Technically speaking, the download & upload price is the same. From a
> cost standpoint, I allocate the download & upload separately because I
> am "forced" to pay dearly ($1200/month) to AT&T for my dual T1's which
> are required for "decent" upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
> split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
> through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
> for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
> this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
> care of the management & monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
> The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
> and set up traffic priority.
> Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
> next. I really need to get the cost down.
>
> Thanks! -RickG
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Rick,
>
> Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and 
> upload).
> So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the 
> time.
> They are not "dedicated" connections, but rather you get what you pay for
> connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
> where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus 
> leaving
> room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
> them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
> know what's happening on our network.
>
> We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
> backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload 
> price
> different than your download price?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> RickG wrote:
>
> Travis,
>
> Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
> your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
> at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
> mind, I have a few questions:
> Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
> What are you paying for your upstream connection?
> What type of upstream connection do you have?
>
> I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
> When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
> business model is tough.
>
> -RickG
>
> BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
> that many us us small WISP's face.
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
> speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential 
> customers
> and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
> same for all of our packages).
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> RickG wrote:
>
> Travis,
>
> If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
> bandwidth for every customer?
>
> -RickG
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
> they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
> liked the "up to" speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
> buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
> "up to" a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
> but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
> you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And 
> what
> do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down 
> speed.
> (they don't know your throttling them though)
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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