This doesn't quite play out in the real world Jack.
We might sell people 1/512k. But we do this knowing that *most* of the time
they won't be anywhere near that.
Think about it like this. A "b" radio (works better at distance and in noise
so I don't often get to use "g" mode) can realistically deliver 4ish megs to
the end user. That's total at any given moment. 4 down or 4 up, not a
combined 8 megs.
So, with, say 2 megs available for upstream connectivity on an ongoing basis,
all it takes to kill an ap is 4 users filling up the upstream connection. Even
if we throttle them to the 512k that we've said they can have.
It takes a *least* ten subs on an AP for us to turn a profit. Most of the time
I try to put 30 to 50 users on an ap. Setting bandwidth limits on them does
not help matters one little bit if even a small percentage of the customers run
constant usage in either direction. TCP/IP just doesn't work well for
streaming traffic. Our radios also just don't have the capacity to pull that
off either.
As bad as we've got it I can't imagine what the telco engineers are having to
deal with. Yeah, they own the copper, but there's cross talk there too. Gonna
be interesting over the next 3 to 5 years as more and more people want
streaming video content via the web.
I guess on the up side, in time (5, 10, 20 years???) that whole triple play
thing will turn out to have been one big joke. People will just buy the pipe
and will put whatever they want on it. They'll do their own phone, for free or
close to free. They'll watch TV when it works for them, on the net, not via
cable fiber or anything else specific to video content as we think of it today.
Who knows, ESPN may even get a competitor or three and without the franchise
agreements with the cable companies they'll have a lot less power. (No one
really thinks the ESPN360 issue is about something other than what content
reality will be in 10 years do you????)
laters,
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Unger
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...
Fred,
Many WISPs throttle throughput according to the terms of the contracted
service that each customer purchases. For example, if a WISP sells 1 Mb down
and 512k up then they limit throughput to somewhere near those levels. Under
those conditions, a customer can have a file or web server and it does not
adversely affect the overall WISP network performance. This level of throughput
management should come under the "reasonable network management" definition
that service providers are allowed to perform. This throttling is also
application-independent so no selective throttling by application is needed.
Finally, the throttling is implemented in routing tables full time and once
programmed, it requires no human interaction.
Fred Goldstein wrote:
At 8/3/2010 06:24 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
Why would customers installing file servers cause you a problem if you
limited their throughput to the Terms and Conditions of their contract where
you would specify the amount of bandwidth that you were supplying them and
limiting them to?
You could limit throughput "neutrally", provided that it limited upstream
file service and interactive applications like gaming and telephony equally.
That's basically what Comcast consented to do. However, those applications
usually require a person to be there; content distribution runs 7x24. Their
ToS (I'm a customer) prohibited file and web servers; the FCC found that
unreasonable.
I do believe that if someone had complained about such activities on
Verizon's or ATT's part, the K-Mart FCC would have found it perfectly desirable.
Fred Goldstein wrote:
At 8/3/2010 04:58 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
That's what I don't understand... some people are so for Net
Neutrality, but every unhappy incumbent customer is a potential sale.
I've long opposed "network neutrality" rules on grounds that it could
put most WISPs out of business. You'd be forced to live by the same rules that
the urban ILECs and CATVs do, even though your cost of both last-mile capacity
and middle mile (if rural) is much higher. Thus you'd be required to allow
customers to install file servers at their subscriber locations, even though
it's much cheaper (overall) to have them at a fiber backbone site. Recall that
Vuze, who made the big stink, is a pR0n distributor using subscriber-site file
servers and home-user computers to undercut other CDNs on price.
I think Verizon actually favors such rules, on grounds that FiOS is
hurt less than most others, including cable, and they'd be happy to see WISPs
go away. (When I see them opposing it, I think of Bre'r Rabbit and the brier
patch.)
--
Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
+1 617 795 2701
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Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
1993
www.ask-wi.com
818-227-4220
[email protected]
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Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
+1 617 795 2701
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Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 [email protected]
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