Blake,
I addressed the Quagga comments in a separate email. As to your comment about bridging, of course you don't need to bridge to use iBGP. I was specifically talking about using redundant routers in disparate locations. We have lots of customers who are using ImageStream routers for BGP redundancy.most using multiple routers. I'm glad you are happy with your Cisco routers. I didn't enter this thread to trash Cisco. If you have the right Cisco for the job, it will work just fine. Regards, Jeff ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 _____ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS Jeff, VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message. Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik. What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're connected by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of bandwidth between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated GigE fiber link in the coming months. I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two connections. There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to operate iBGP. I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it because we have requirements for performance & uptime which a Linux/BSD box cannot currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for companies in various industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, defense, energy, cellular, and even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford to wrestle with the issues others on this list experience. If its not reliable we replace it. We don't have a problem paying for reliability. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: > Hi Blake, > > I'm not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I believe you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get. We generally blow the doors off of the VXRs and down. > > There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy. One is with a massively expensive single box, like the Cisco. The other is to set up redundant hardware.which is particularly good in a BGP application. You can have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and VRRP between the boxes, and BGP between the peers. That way, if you lose anything, all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s). This also allows for geographic separation of the routers. If you can bridge between the routers, you can have them in completely different locations.thus keeping your network running if something really nasty happens. > > I can't speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling BGP for around 10 years. We use Quagga currently and we've found it to be very stable, as our customers on-list have attested. It's one of our top applications. > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS > > Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more Interface types, and more widely tested & stable software. > > I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day; terminate some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and participate in an OSPF area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware redundancy & wire-speed forwarding isn't there for my needs. > > If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future. Cisco does too & has developed IOS XR. > > Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta & ImageStream are great platforms. They compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's appropriate. > > -- > Blake Covarrubias > > On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" <jeffl...@att.net> wrote: > >> I'm curious Travis.not looking for an argument. >> >> What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based originally) to a hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, Vyatta, whatever)? >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeff >> ImageStream >> 800-813-5123 x106 >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS >> >> Tom, >> >> I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't >> compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built >> from the ground up to do nothing but routing. We purchased a used Cisco >> 12008 router about 1.5 years ago off ebay. They are very, very cheap... >> the only downside is they are BIG and require 240VAC. But it's way cool >> to pull the CPU card while the router is moving 500Mbps of traffic and >> have it not even miss a single ping (due to the redundant CPU card). >> Same goes for the route fabric card. ;) >> >> We use Mikrotik for our inside "core" router and this big Cisco for our >> border router to our BGP upstreams. I have slept very well for the last >> 1.5 years knowing everything in the box is fully redundant (CPU, route, >> power, etc.). :) >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> >> On 11/2/2010 9:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> > Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. Imagestream and >> > Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers. >> > >> > I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom >> > modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use latest >> > Quagga. >> > That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont recommend >> > that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of Linux. >> > Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science >> > project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once you are >> > comfortable with your Distro, it works well. >> > >> > There are a million arguements "for" and "against" Cisco versus Linux, to be >> > used for the ISPs' average NOC/POP router/switch. I dont dispute any of the >> > arguements. But one area where I believe Linux stands tall, is as a CORE BGP >> > router. A core BGP router can be one of the more simplistic configured >> > routers because it only really needs to perform one function, BGP routing to >> > its connected peers. For BGP there are two critical needs.... Fast >> > processors and Lots of RAM. In todays world there is no excuse to not have >> > both of those. The problem with Cisco is that it lacks both, unless you pay >> > big bucks. Linux on the other hand has an abundance of both, when combined >> > with PC-Like hardware. >> > >> > I laugh at my competitors, when they say, "oh no, BGP reset, had to reload >> > BGP tables, now there is latency for like 3 minutes or compromised routing >> > for that period" or "got a route problem, the small prefixes aren't in my >> > tables". . On Linux, if you want to restart BGP, well thats like 1 second to >> > reload tables. And no need to drop any routes, unless you want to. You could >> > have Full routes with like 30 peers from a single router, if you wanted to. >> > You can load up Linux with like 32 NICs (qty8 4port GIG NICs) in a 2U case, >> > if you want to, and dont even need a Switch. (Although new will cost you >> > about $430 per 4port PCI-E Gig NIC). >> > >> > Tom DeReggi >> > RapidDSL& Wireless, Inc >> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Kristian Hoffmann"<kh...@fire2wire.com> >> > To: "WISPA General List"<wireless@wispa.org> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:37 PM >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS >> > >> > >> >> On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote: >> >> >> >>> I still need to try a Vyatta system. >> >> I loathe the idea of managing a *nix distro on a router (which is why we >> >> use RouterOS now). Apparently I've had too much Tik-aid, because I had >> >> completely forgotten about Vyatta and similar options. >> >> >> >> I have a SuperMicro 5015A-H (Atom 330 dual-core) coming in tomorrow. >> >> I'm going to try RouterOS and Vyatta and see how BGP responds on each >> >> with a single feed. If anyone else has an x86-based distro they'd like >> >> to see performance on, let me know. >> >> >> >> And thanks for all the responses. The information has been very >> >> helpful. Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is "I have no idea >> >> what I'm going to do." Cisco = $$$ and MikroTik = coin flip. Hopefully >> >> Vyatta lands somewhere in the middle. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> -Kristian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> > WISPA Wants You! 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