I am SO, so glad I am rural!!!
--
On 11/15/2013 8:57 PM, ralph wrote:
<nods> to Zach-
I've been building outdoor wireless (mostly mesh) networks since about
2002. When I worked for Earthlink in 2006 and 2007 and deployed about
7 large Muni systems (12,000 APs in Philly for example), it was an
open system. Anyone (including a WISP) who had the up-front $$ could
get an SSID and be handed off their traffic. We had SSIDs for Vonage
and DirectV as others.
Several local towns here also installed various (mostly Cisco) Cisco
mesh systems. Then they chose an ISP to power them. The later company
I was with (a small WISP, not Earthlink) was chosen in two of the
towns. We were handed an Ethernet cable. On the other end of that
cable were all the residences and businesses in town that the Muni
system passed. Pretty sweet.
Back years ago when the WISPS on the lists were worrying about the
Muni systems, you may remember that I promoted a "don't fight 'em,
join 'em" strategy. Very few did. Now of course it is different
because the Cablecos realized they could do it too. They have the
(almost) unlimited wired backhaul, the access rights, the strand
provided 60-90v power, and the DEEP pockets. This is why Cisco even
stayed in the outdoor AP business at all. Their mesh did not perform
well. But who needs mesh if you can make every AP a root (wired)
access point.
*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
*On Behalf Of *Zach Mann
*Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013 11:41 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more 5GHz spectrum.
Oh btw, even tho COMPANY A deploys these AP's and broadcasts their own
SSID, doesn't mean the other players in town can't "pay" COMPANY A for
their own SSID for their subscribers. :) It will be interesting to
see how this all develops.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Matt Hoppes
<mhop...@indigowireless.com <mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote:
Right... I as well.. that's why I don't know what the answer is.
Everyone's in this game, but some just play (seemingly) unfair... for
example, it doesn't help anyone when you just go throwing up APs on
cable plants and blasting all over the town.
On the other hand Comcast may say it doesn't make sence for you (the
WISP) to go sticking these high gain antennas up on the tower and
covering the town!
Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
On 11/15/13, 11:19 AM, Eric Flanery wrote:
> How would you 'legally' define a WISP?
>
> What would make Comcast 'not a WISP', if they are delivering
Internet over Wireless?
>
> If it's that they also deliver Internet over another medium,
would we (and many other providers) also be excluded because we
also deliver Internet over cable and fiber?
>
> If it's that they also provide TV service, then what about those
of us that also run transport, hosting, development, and
infrastructure services (examples among doubtless myriad others).
>
> Not that I wouldn't love some protected spectrum, I'm just
having a hard time imagining anything that would prevent Comcast
and the like from using it, while not also excluding quite a few
of us.
>
> --Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:04 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more 5GHz spectrum.
>
> Yes and no... I mean... yeah it's a pain to those of us trying
to use
> the spectrum... but then again so is Comcast.
>
> This is exactly why there needs to be some sort of WISP only
spectrum...
> with laws carefully written so Comcast can't just say they are a
WISP.
>
>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
>
> On 11/15/13, 11:02 AM, Robert wrote:
>> Spectrum trashers.... At least if there's no traffic on them
there
>> shouldn't be much noise..
>>
>> On 11/15/2013 06:26 AM, Zach Mann wrote:
>>> He's talking about these... (see attached)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Scott Carullo
>>> <sc...@brevardwireless.com <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about the ones in peoples homes, I'm
talking about
>>> the ones the cable carrier hangs on the lines outside
runing through
>>> the city on every corner.... clear LOS to every tower
around.
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Technical Operations
>>> 855-FLSPEED x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From*: "Brian Webster" <bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
<mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com>
>>> <mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
<mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com>>>
>>> *Sent*: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:24 AM
>>> *To*: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>>
>>> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more 5GHz
spectrum.
>>>
>>> One good thing about the higher bands and the noise
floor is that
>>> free space loss works to your advantage. That being that
a 5 GHz
>>> indoor Omni home AP router signal will fall off as an
interference
>>> source as a much shorter distance than a 2.4 GHz device
will. The
>>> laws of physics work in your favor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
<http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>>>
>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>
<http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>>
>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Scott Carullo
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:52 PM
>>> *To:* Matt Hoppes; sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
>>> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>>; WISPA General List
>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more 5GHz
spectrum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hard to tell, noise floor is noise floor which keeps
creeping up -
>>> we all know things work better when its quiet. This
used to worry
>>> me a lot when I saw it coming, but then I realized it
was already
>>> there and I had no idea until I just happened to scan on
some radios
>>> (I don't usually install the stuff). I'm not worried
any more, if
>>> its not one thing it will be another any way. Thats
what gives us
>>> the edge every day, flexibility. We will work around
it, we always do.
>>>
>>> I figure a high gain antenna on a tower with a good
directional CPE
>>> will continue to work fine. Their omni low gain antenna
can't
>>> compete with a 20-30db directional one. Still sucks
though, you
>>> drive down the street and see one after another running
5Ghz just
>>> knowing there probably isn't 3 connections in the whole
city to them....
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Technical Operations
>>> 855-FLSPEED x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From*: "Matt Hoppes" <mhop...@indigowireless.com
<mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>
>>> <mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
<mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>>>
>>> *Sent*: Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:43 PM
>>> *To*: "sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>>"
>>> <sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>>>,
>>> "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>>
>>> *Cc*: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>>
>>> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more 5GHz
spectrum.
>>>
>>> Are you seeing any impact from them?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 14, 2013, at 18:03, "Scott Carullo"
>>> <sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, won't matter either way with a 5Ghz AP on
every street
>>> corner. Already seeing that in our areas.... do a
wireless
>>> scan and you see 354 5Ghz APs now in addition to the
2Ghz ones
>>> (they run dual band APs now).
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Technical Operations
>>> 855-FLSPEED x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From*: "Bret Clark" <bcl...@spectraaccess.com
<mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com>
>>> <mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com
<mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com>>>
>>> *Sent*: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:49 PM
>>> *To*: wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
>>> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Comcast asking FCC for more
5GHz spectrum.
>>>
>>> What could go wrong with Comcast taking up yet more
5GHz of
>>> spectrum...[/sarcasm off]
>>>
>>> On 11/14/2013 01:40 PM, ralph wrote:
>>>
>>> I hope the links at the bottom come through.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Comcast needs the FCC to open up the 5 GHz
spectrum band to
>>> power next-generation Wi-Fi services that could
allow it to
>>> deliver wireless broadband at speeds of up to 1
Gbps, SVP of
>>> Business Development Tom Nagel testified at a
House Energy
>>> and Commerce hearing on Wednesday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nagel disclosed in his prepared testimony that
Comcast has
>>> expanded the number of Wi-Fi access points for
Xfinity
>>> high-speed Internet customers to 350,000. The
nation's
>>> largest cable MSO also began deploying wireless
gateways
>>> from Cisco earlier this year that Comcast has
said may be
>>> able to power millions of neighborhood hotspots.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While Comcast already is already using the 5 GHz
band, Nagel
>>> said it needs more of the unlicensed spectrum to
meet demand
>>> from subscribers for Wi-Fi. It faces potential
opposition
>>> from Toyota and other automobile manufacturers
who want to
>>> use the 5 GHz band to deliver next-generation
connected car
>>> applications, including applications that would
warn drivers
>>> of collision threats.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Toyota principal researcher John Kenney raised
concerns
>>> about possible interference from Wi-Fi services at
>>> Wednesday's hearing. "We have been actively
engaged with
>>> the Wi-Fi community and other stakeholders who
are exploring
>>> possible sharing solutions that will alleviate
any risk of
>>> harmful interference from unlicensed devices.
But we're not
>>> there yet and it's going to take a bit more time
to see if
>>> we can get there," Kenney said in his prepared
testimony.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more:
>>> - see Nagel's prepared testimony
>>>
<http://links.mkt1985.com/ctt?kn=207&ms=NzE0MjgxOQS2&r=NDc2MTk4ODcyMzcS1&b=0&j=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&mt=2&rj=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&rt=0>
(.pdf)
>>> - see Kenney's prepared testimony
>>>
<http://links.mkt1985.com/ctt?kn=187&ms=NzE0MjgxOQS2&r=NDc2MTk4ODcyMzcS1&b=0&j=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&mt=2&rj=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&rt=0>
(.pdf)
>>> - see Comcast blog post
>>>
<http://links.mkt1985.com/ctt?kn=118&ms=NzE0MjgxOQS2&r=NDc2MTk4ODcyMzcS1&b=0&j=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&mt=2&rj=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&rt=0>
>>> - /Broadcasting & Cable/ has this story
>>>
<http://links.mkt1985.com/ctt?kn=190&ms=NzE0MjgxOQS2&r=NDc2MTk4ODcyMzcS1&b=0&j=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&mt=2&rj=MTc5NzA2OTg3S0&rt=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wireless mailing list
>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wireless mailing list
>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wireless mailing list
>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> _______________________________________________
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--
West Michigan Wireless ISP
Allegan, Michigan 49010
269-686-8648
A Division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
