James,
That's kind of how I was reading that too.  Yes, the carrier only pays
it on intrastate circuits, but they can charge it anywhere --- provided
they don't charge more than they pay..

Which brings up another question..... with enough customer base the
charges should go down for everyone.... but I can't recall the last time
I saw that happen.


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 3:01 PM, James Howard wrote:
> From the FCC website:
> 
>  
> 
>  The Universal Service Fund is paid for by contributions
> <http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-methodology-administrative-filings>
>  from
> telecommunications carriers, including wireline and wireless companies,
> and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers,
> including cable companies that provide voice service, based on an
> assessment on their *interstate* and international end-user revenues.
> 
>  
> 
>   * Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their
>     telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to
>     recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing
>     them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed
>     on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about
>     *whether and how to assess charges to recover* its Universal Service
>     costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the
>     consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal
>     Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that
>     exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any
>     fees from a Lifeline program participant.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> IANAL but this doesn’t seem to restrict them from “recovering” these
> fees from ANY customer they want to recover them from.  Just because we
> aren’t using an INTERSTATE circuit doesn’t mean that they can’t chose to
> recover some of their USF fees from us. 
> 
>  
> 
> We have been successful in getting them removed from all of our
> intrastate circuits.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:51 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
>  
> 
> Interstate access charge, maybe?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
> 
> On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>> Don't know.
>> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:[email protected]]
>> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:[email protected]]
>> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>
>> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
>> an INTERstate?
>>
>>
>> Matt Hoppes
>> Director of Information Technology
>> Indigo Wireless
>> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>>
>> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e> wrote:
>> > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
>> several
>> > times. They finally removed it.
>> > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
>> > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
>> all the
>> > addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>> >
>> > I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years
>> ago in
>> > another life.
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>]
>> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>]
>> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
>> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>> >
>> > That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
>> > the paperwork ID number you had to request?
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt Hoppes
>> > Director of Information Technology
>> > Indigo Wireless
>> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
>> <#>] <#>
>> >
>> > On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e> wrote:
>> > > From our Metro Ethernet network
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>]
>> > > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>]
>> > > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>> > >
>> > > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Matt Hoppes
>> > > Director of Information Technology
>> > > Indigo Wireless
>> > > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570)
>> 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>]
>> > <#>] <#>
>> > >
>> > > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
>> > > > We did this, and won.
>> > > >
>> > > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > *From:*[email protected]
> <mailto:From:*[email protected]>
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>]
>> > > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
>> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
>> > > > *To:* WISPA General List
>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
>> > intra-state and
>> > > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect
>> USF on
>> > > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
>> > > applicable.
>> > > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
>> > you can
>> > > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
>> > > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
>> > > stink
>> > > > with your sales rep.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Kristian
>> > > >
>> > > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
>> > > > to carry Internet traffic.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sent from my iPad
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
>> > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
> <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > hmmm...... not quite accurate...
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
>> > > > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
>> > > > carrying internet access.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Faisal Imtiaz
>> > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> > > > 7266 SW 48 Street
>> > > > Miami, FL 33155
>> > > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call:
>> > (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] <#>] <#>] <#> Option 2 or Email:
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e> <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
>> > > > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is
>> > > > a transport and not an internet circuit.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to
>> > > > Internet access.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Sent from my iPad
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"
>> > > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e> <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e> <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Guys,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding
>> > > > current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for
>> > > > WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill
>> > > > from my new upstream fiber provider.
>> > > >
>> > > > (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to
>> > > > also offer metro ethernet IP)
>> > > >
>> > > > Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
>> > > > Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
>> > > > Transport data link.
>> > > >
>> > > > So I consider this a wholesale component or
>> > > > infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any
>> > > > Taxes or USF.
>> > > >
>> > > > I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a
>> > > > CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to
>> > > > collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And
>> > > > further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay
>> > > > and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to
>> > > > provide legal documentation to support my claim to my
>> > > > upstream.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me....
>> > > >
>> > > > The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber
>> > > > cost.
>> > > >
>> > > > The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost.
>> > > >
>> > > > The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of
>> > > > monthly fiber cost.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can
>> > > > not be taxed by the State.
>> > > >
>> > > > Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the
>> > > > past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
>> > > > Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
>> > > > Transport data link.
>> > > >
>> > > > So I consider this a wholesale component or
>> > > > infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > So questions are....
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > 1) Am I exempt as a WISP.
>> > > >
>> > > > 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to
>> > > > my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax
>> > > > resell certificate)
>> > > >
>> > > > 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into
>> > > > USF) and if so, what is the current % rate?
>> > > >
>> > > > 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves
>> > > > versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've
>> > > > obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC).
>> > > >
>> > > > 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit?
>> > > >
>> > > > 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies
>> > > > this clearly?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation
>> > > > code.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Tom DeReggi
>> > > > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> > > > 301-515-7774[Call: 301-515-7774[Call: 301-515-7774[Call:
>> 301-515-7774] <#>] <#>] <#>
>> > > >
>> > > > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > >
>> > > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > >
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > >
>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e%3e>
>> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Wireless mailing list
>> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]%3e%3e>
>> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wireless mailing list
>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]%3e>
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