It's the AP, not the backhaul. We just don't have space or frequency available to keep deploying more and more APs (let alone the cost) - having a single Procera help control them is significantly cheaper than continuing to deploy infrastructure to split up customers.

On 11/2/2014 5:57 PM, Tim Way wrote:
Ya I see ya there. I'm surprised you are having that much congestion on those back haul links out to the tower unless the AP itself on the tower is maxed out during the peak hours. Is that pretty common for some of the other WISP providers out there? Is it more often the back-haul or the capacity of a particular radio? What are the ways people are solving it when a particular radio is chatty during peak hours? Do you put another (set of sectors) in another frequency and connect some customers to that one if their is frequency to spare? Is moving towards a model where you have more source radios (towers/cells) so the density on a particular radio isn't as high?

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Simon Westlake <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    It is a completely different solution. There would be no caching,
    it's all shaping or filtering. For example, what we do is, during
    peak hours, no software updates or backup systems (like Dropbox,
    Carbonite, etc) can use more than 128Kbps per customer. Outside
    peak hours, we let them run wild.

    A caching server wouldn't do us any good unless we put one at each
    tower. Our upstream is not the problem.


    On 10/30/2014 11:51 PM, Tim Way wrote:
    I agree with Paul on this one for sure. I don't know much about
    the Procera box but is their method support by Apple or is more
    of a traditional in-line proxy that intercepts and redirects the
    communication?

    On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Paul Conlin
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    wrote:

        Because management of Apple iOS updates is one big thing that
        Procera can do to help optimize a WISPs network. But if you
        are running a low cost low overhead Apple update caching
        server you could very easily do this without an expensive
        Procera box.

        PC
        Blaze Broadband


        On October 30, 2014 5:33:59 PM EDT, Josh Reynolds
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            Quick question,

            Maybe I missed something, but how did we go from traffic
            shaping and DPI devices to something that does caching
            for apple stuff? Those are two entirely different classes
            of products.

            Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
            SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

            On 10/30/2014 01:30 PM, Chris Wright wrote:

            It can work on networks not behind a NAT.

            http://help.apple.com/serverapp/mac/4.0/#/apd6015d9573

            Chris Wright

            Velociter Wireless <http://www.velociter.net/>

            *From:*[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>
            [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike
            Hammett
            *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:38 PM
            *To:* WISPA General List
            *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar product

            Okay, so it would be for networks behind a NAT.



            -----
            Mike Hammett
            Intelligent Computing Solutions
            http://www.ics-il.com

            
------------------------------------------------------------------------

            *From: *"Chris Wright" <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>>
            *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>>
            *Sent: *Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:22:16 PM
            *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar product

            Disregard my “AFAIK” answer. This is the real answer per
            http://www.nbalonso.com/os-x-server-caching/

            “The cache server registers online with Apple and
            provides it’s public IP, your servers local IP, internal
            DNS name? (not sure of the dns)”

            Chris Wright

            Velociter Wireless <http://www.velociter.net/>

            *From:*[email protected]
            
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:[email protected]]
            *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
            *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:12 PM
            *To:* WISPA General List
            *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar product

            I couldn't see how other people are supposed to know you
            have one of these caches running.



            -----
            Mike Hammett
            Intelligent Computing Solutions
            http://www.ics-il.com

            
------------------------------------------------------------------------

            *From: *"Chris Wright" <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>>
            *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>>
            *Sent: *Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:10:36 PM
            *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar product

            OSX Server is a $19.99 add-on to OSX Yosemite. You can
            virtualize OSX in ESXi (of course it won’t be supported
            by Apple unless it’s Apple hardware.)

            Chris Wright

            Velociter Wireless <http://www.velociter.net/>

            *From:*[email protected]
            
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:[email protected]]
            *On Behalf Of *Paul Conlin
            *Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:57 AM
            *To:* WISPA General List
            *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar product

            Unless the caching server is free. Under what conditions
            does Apple put one of these in?

            PC
            Blaze Broadband

            On October 28, 2014 1:41:41 PM EDT, Josh Luthman
            <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                I don't think many people care about caching servers
                in this regard.  The issue  isn't the upstream pipe
                filling up, it's all the APs.


                Josh Luthman
                Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
                Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
                1100 Wayne St
                Suite 1337
                Troy, OH 45373

                On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Timothy Way
                <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                    For those that are unaware of it you should take
                    a look at Apple's Caching Server 2. It is pretty
                    cool, it provides Apple software updates, iTunes
                    content and basically anything Apple in a local
                    cache that is transparent to the client. Apple
                    looks at the source IP of the device asking for
                    content and tells it to hit the local IP of your
                    caching server. My day job is a Network
                    Administrator at a technical college. This has
                    prevented the "APPLE DAYS OF DOOM" when they
                    release updates in regards to our open (public)
                    wireless network.

                    Tim Way

                    On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Paolo Di
                    Francesco <[email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                        Hello,

                        it depends on what you want/can achieve and
                        how much bandwidth you have
                        (and the experince you want to give to the
                        users)

                        In few words: those boxes do not invent
                        bandwidth they (all) try to
                        improve how you manage it. So those boxes
                        are managing the bandwidth
                        with their policies that could or could not
                        fit your policies.

                        Some simple tricks will help you to move the
                        traffic locally (e.g.
                        Implementing local web-caching, local DNS,
                        etc) but for sure you have to
                        work on the infrastructure to optimize the
                        traffic. The nice thing, in
                        that case, is that you will be more aware of
                        what your users are doing
                        and how to make them happy; the bad part of
                        the story is that you have
                        to spend time (or consultants) to get it.
                        For the hardware, many are
                        using Mikrotik CCR or even slower/cheaper
                        Mikrotik models.

                        For sure investing more in infrastructure
                        will help a lot :)

                        Just my 2 cents



                        > Having used Allot NetEnforcer for years,
                        then moved to Exinda for
                        > years, we are now considering removing
                        bandwidth managers altogether
                        > and relying solely on policing on radios,
                        QoS policies on core routers
                        > & layer 3 switches, and monitoring flows
                        using Netflow.
                        >
                        > More work, but much less $$. Allows us to
                        invest in infrastructure
                        > rather than extraordinarily expensive
                        bandwidth management devices.
                        >
                        > *From:*[email protected]
                        
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>]
                        > *On Behalf Of *Larry A. Weidig
                        > *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 10:17 PM
                        > *To:* WISPA General List
                        > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar
                        product
                        >
                        > Very interesting, thanks for the lead.
                        Seems they have a product and a
                        > library available. Have contacted them for
                        additional information.
                        >
                        >
                        
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Larry A. Weidig ([email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>)
                        > Excel.Net, Inc. – http://www.excel.net/
                        > (920) 452-0455 <tel:%28920%29%20452-0455>–
                        Sheboygan/Plymouth area
                        > (888) 489-9995 <tel:%28888%29%20489-9995>–
                        Other areas, toll-free
                        >
                        >
                        
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > *From: *"Josh Reynolds"
                        <[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>>
                        > *To: *[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>
                        > *Sent: *Friday, October 24, 2014 7:15:20 PM
                        > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] procera or similiar
                        product
                        >
                        > should check out ipoque and their PACE engine
                        >
                        > Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
                        > SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
                        <http://www.spitwspots.com><http://www.spitwspots.com>
                        >
                        > On 10/24/2014 03:40 PM, Larry A. Weidig wrote:
                        >
                        >     We have done some searching in this
                        arena and have only found a
                        >  couple of what seem to be similar
                        products available:
                        >
                        >     Allot Communications - NetEnforcer
                        (does a lot, costs a lot so
                        >     they live up to their name :) )
                        >
                        >  Netaxcel - Found it, did not dig far into it
                        >
                        >  NetEqualizer - Reasonable, but not as
                        featured as Procera / Allot
                        >
                        >  Emerging Technologies - We used to have
                        one of their boxes, would
                        >     not EVER use again not because of the
                        software / hardware but the
                        >     owner / lead developer which may have
                        changed as it was a long
                        >     time ago we used this
                        >
                        >  Overall it seemed Procera was the best
                        solution, just having a
                        >  difficult time justifying the expense as
                        well. I say we all throw
                        >     in $5K, hire some developers and get
                        one made that we have control
                        >     over :) I have to believe some decent
                        server quality hardware
                        >  running on an open source operating
                        system with custom code could
                        >     fit the bill. Just don't have time to
                        work on this myself.
                        >
                        >
                         
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >     Larry A. Weidig ([email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>)
                        >  Excel.Net, Inc. – http://www.excel.net/
                        > (920) 452-0455 <tel:%28920%29%20452-0455>–
                        Sheboygan/Plymouth area
                        > (888) 489-9995 <tel:%28888%29%20489-9995>–
                        Other areas, toll-free
                        >
                        >
                         
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >  *From: *"Dave Barker"
                        <[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>
                        >  <mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>
                        >     *To: *"WISPA General List"
                        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
                        >  <mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>
                        >  *Sent: *Friday, October 24, 2014 4:38:16 PM
                        >  *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] procera or
                        similiar product
                        >
                        >     Back to the original question, is
                        there anything else out there
                        >     that does what Procera can do?
                        >
                        >
                        >     On Oct 24, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Art
                        Stephens <[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>
                        >  <mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
                        >
                        >         I can not speak for sales since we
                        bought our Procera through
                        >  Powercode - but tech support has be very
                        responsive using
                        >  their web based support system.
                        >
                        >  --
                        >
                        >  Arthur Stephens
                        >
                        >  Senior Networking Technician
                        >
                        >  Ptera Inc.
                        >
                        >  PO Box 135
                        >
                        >  24001 E Mission Suite 50
                        >
                        >  Liberty Lake, WA 99019
                        >
                        > 509-927-7837 <tel:509-927-7837>
                        >
                        > ptera.com <http://ptera.com><http://ptera.com>
                        >
                        > facebook.com/PteraInc
                        
<http://facebook.com/PteraInc><http://facebook.com/PteraInc>
                        |
                        > twitter.com/Ptera
                        <http://twitter.com/Ptera><http://twitter.com/Ptera>
                        >
                        >
                         
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >  "This message may contain confidential
                        and/or propriety
                        >  information, and is intended for the
                        person/entity to whom it
                        >  was originally addressed.
                        >
                        >  Any use by others is strictly prohibited.
                        Please note that any
                        >  views or opinions presented in this email
                        are solely those of
                        >  the author and are not intended to
                        represent those of the
                        >  company."
                        >
                        >  On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:36 PM, heith
                        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
                        >  <mailto:[email protected]
                        <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
                        >
                        >    So the last booth I visited at Wispa in
                        Vegas was the
                        >    Procera booth. I am hooked and want to
                        learn more, but at
                        >    $17k a pop it’s a little hard to
                        swallow, as I would need
                        >    to purchase 4 of them for my current
                        locations that I
                        >    serve. Are there any other solution I
                        can look for to do
                        >    similar functions that may be more cost
                        effective?
                        >
                        >    __
                        >
                        >    _I am also a little leery at the fact
                        that I have left
                        >    them 2 voice mail messages as well as
                        sent an email from
                        >    earlier this week with no return call.
                        So that’s a concern
                        >    if it takes a while to get sales
                        support if tech support
                        >    would be any different. So I was
                        wanting some feed back
                        >    from some actual users of their product
                        or other similar
                        >    products._
                        >
                        >    __
                        >
                        >    _Thanks_
                        >
                        >    _Heith_
                        >
                        >    _
                        >
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                        >
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                        --


                        Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

                        Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale

                        Sede operativa: Largo Montalto, 5 - 90144
                        Palermo

                        C.F. e P.IVA 05940050825
                        Fax : +39-091-8772072 <tel:%2B39-091-8772072>
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                        web: http://www.level7.it



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-- Simon Westlake
    *Powercode* - The smart choice in ISP billing and OSS
    powercode.com <http://powercode.com>
    P: 920-351-1010 <tel:920-351-1010>
    E: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

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*Powercode* - The smart choice in ISP billing and OSS
powercode.com <http://powercode.com>
P: 920-351-1010
E: [email protected]
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