awww... that's a bit rough on IFRAMES (and framsets in general)... we're building web applications, not web pages per se. We're being influenced by various "windows" UI's (more than just MS Windows) because that's the "standard" that people expect. We're also pushing ahead as far as a web platform will allow (using DHTML without going too far down the Flash UI route).
to do that with dynamic content and without iframes/framsets is just silly. Look at your Windows Explorer. you see more than one independent pane that interacts. Look at (admittedly old hat) Outlook Web Access (OWA - a clunky but workable ASP web front for Outlook). you just can't build that sort of functionality without frames. you *might* with JS remoting calls changing the innerHTML of divs but it would be such a massive headache to maintain such a convoluted page structure (logic, not layout). I waited years for IFRAMES to be cross browser (well, a couple anyway). Don't you dare take them away now... just my 2c (while bored writing db connection code) barry.b -----Original Message----- From: Lee Roberts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Future.....(was: Re: [WSG] iFrames vs Scrolling Divs) Scott wants to know who voted the W3C the ruling authority. That was me! 20 years on the *net gave me that right. Seriously, though, who voted the ISO or IETF to be authoritative enough to establish rules for people using the Internet and World Wide Web, oh yes there is a difference? Who established the rules for the World Wide Web which ethical designers and developers attempt to follow? If web development is your job, don't you think you should be good enough to follow the rules established? If you were a construction builder wouldn't you have to follow rules? As for iframe, I don't like it either. I've used it once, but the page it was pulling in was a flash communications presentation for my radio show. As for frames, they were the most ignorant thing ever created. Personally, they should be allowed to exist today, but for some reason we can't get rid of them by some developers. The real problem with frames is people don't know how to use them in the first place. Second, they lack any real features for accessibility. For SEO purposes they are really bad. Frames were allowed in the beginning because browsers didn't have very good caching abilities. Now that they do, you don't need them. They won't help. Perhaps that will help some. Scrolling DIVs at least put all the information on the same page, unless you plan on pulling in another page. In my opinion the latter is a mistake. Search engines say all content must be visible, it never says you can't scroll a DIV to see all the information. Sincerely, Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Future.....(was: Re: [WSG] iFrames vs Scrolling Divs) Scott, you said, > If this IS the case, what benefits are we getting as developers for > taking on extra headaches in making it W3C compliant (who by the way > aren't an international elected body - more of a group that have taken > liberty to makeup standards). Who would elect such a body? Web designers? Governments? Users? The UN? As it is, we have the major browser manufacturers on board, the guy who invented the web heading it up, and some of the clearest-thinking, most far-sighted people in the web community making contributions that aim to free the web from proprietory chains and dead-end hacks, with as elegant solutions as can be devised. What more could you want? Down with proprietory solutions, I say! -Hugh Todd ***************************************************** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***************************************************** ***************************************************** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***************************************************** ***************************************************** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *****************************************************
