I would recommend leaving them out, from my experience with blind users,
the placeholders cause more trouble than they are worth. quite often users
are not aware of them and as a consequence they will fill in an input
without first clearing the place holder, which may well result in a form
validation error.
if you do use them it may be wise to include a javascript that clears the
default value when the input accepts focus

<input type="text" onfocus="if(this.value=='poot'){this.value=''}"
value="poot"/>

PS. bobby is a piece of dumb software, don't rely upon it to tell you if
your site is:
 a. accessible
b. conforms to the WCAG  guidelines.


with regards

Steven Faulkner
Web Accessibility Consultant
National Information & Library Service (NILS)
454 Glenferrie Road
Kooyong Victoria 3144
Phone: (613) 9864 9281
Fax: (613) 9864 9210
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

National Information Library Service
A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.


                                                                                       
                                                 
                      "Andreas Boehmer"                                                
                                                 
                      <andreas_boehmer@        To:       <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>           
                                         
                      gmx.net>                 cc:                                     
                                                 
                      Sent by:                 Subject:  [WSG] default place-holders 
for forms                                          
                      [EMAIL PROTECTED]                                                
                                                 
                      group.org                                                        
                                                 
                                                                                       
                                                 
                                                                                       
                                                 
                      04/10/2004 02:06                                                 
                                                 
                      PM                                                               
                                                 
                      Please respond to                                                
                                                 
                      wsg                                                              
                                                 
                                                                                       
                                                 
                                                                                       
                                                 




Hi guys,

I have got a website (www.jet.org.au) that passes Bobby almost with AAA,
with the exception of the default place holders. The reason I do not want
to
put them into the site is because every page has got a login form at the
top. With the default place-holders, the login form would look something
like this:

Username: Enter username
Password: ************

The password place-holder looks pretty useless and confusing to me. Most
users will plain wonder what that is supposed to do, it's not really
helpful
at all.

So I'd love to hear your opinions on this one? Shall I enter them just to
pass the accessibility tests, or leave them out for (in my opinion) better
usability? Being so close to AAA and not reaching it is frustrating.

Thanks!

Andreas.





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