On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Sylvester Keil <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Frank Bennett wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Sylvester Keil <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Frank Bennett wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Sylvester Keil <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Rintze Zelle wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Frank Bennett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Frank Bennett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:06 PM, G C <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Frank, I tried the latest mlz release with a style which re-defines >>>>>>>> ordinals, gender, etc. >>>>>>>> This doesn't work. >>>>>>>> -limit-day-ordinals-to-day-1="true" has no effect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't implemented that one yet, so no worries there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -when gender variants are defined in the ordinal suffix terms , there >>>>>>>> is no >>>>>>>> output at all with terms other than months (e.g. "edition") >>>>>>>> [<term name="ordinal-01" gender-form="feminine" >>>>>>>> match="whole-number">ʳᵉ</term> >>>>>>>> <term name="ordinal-01" gender-form="masculine" >>>>>>>> match="whole-number">ᵉʳ</term>] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's not good. Thanks for the report, I'll take a look. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is that the entire set of ordinals that are redefined in the style? >>>>>> You need to provide the full set, and I think that a default term >>>>>> (without gender-form) for each needs to be set. The ordinals travel >>>>>> only as a full set. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is that really necessary? The example I wrote up for the specification >>>>>> doesn't define a genderless "ordinal-01" term. >>>>> >>>>> I was wondering, too. Gracile explained that there is no genderless term >>>>> in this case and Rintze suggested to generally fallback to the feminine >>>>> version when looking up terms since that is the more common case in the >>>>> languages we looked at. >>>> >>>> Let me think out loud here for a few lines. >>>> >>>> (1) If a masc, fem or neut variable term is called, the >>>> corresponding genderized term should be used. That much is common >>>> sense. >>>> >>>> (2) If a neuter term is defined, and a masc or fem variable term is >>>> called, and no corresponding genderized term is defined, it defaults >>>> to the neuter term version. That's clear from the spec. >>>> >>>> (3) If a fem term is defined, and no neut term is defined, the fem >>>> term becomes the default, and will be used if a masc term variant is >>>> undefined (following the suggestion above). >>>> >>>> (4) If only a masc term is defined, I guess that becomes the >>>> default, and will be used if (as would logically be so) a fem term is >>>> undefined. >>> >>> This looks very good. What I fear will complicate matters considerably are >>> the other possible fallbacks: locale-wise (i.e., style and default region >>> overrides) and for ordinals specifically. As I said, I haven't yet been >>> able to sit down and think this through, but I agree with Frank that this >>> matter (locale, gender fallback precedence) will require some time to be >>> resolved properly. >>> >>> Sylvester >> >> If we can agree that ordinal term sets should be provided as a full >> set within a style, and that the prior ordinal terms (from the locale >> file) will be entirely discarded in that case, it will simplify >> things. > > Absolutely. > > Slightly off topic: I haven't tackled this issue in the citeproc-ruby rewrite > yet, but I know that I already thought about resolving locale fallbacks > either by: > > * reconciling all the possible overrides at the beginning, i.e. generating a > virtual locale which combines all locales in question (e.g., the > style-locale, the locale, and the fallback region locale); the lookup would > then just have to deal with a single locale > > * or to consider all the possible locales individually during the lookup > process > > My plan was to go with the former approach since the lookup algorithm would > become simpler that way. Did you come to a similar solution in citeproc-js or > a completely different approach altogether? > > Sylvester
citeproc-js does the former, and it works quite well. > > > >>> >>> >>> >>>> I'll confess that this will require a rewrite the locale and term >>>> calling code in citeproc-js. I'll wind out the latest citeproc-js >>>> release from MLZ, and post a note when the work has been done. It will >>>> probably be another month or so. >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Note: I haven't worked out a general algorithm for gender lookups yet >>>>> that considers all these fallbacks. >>>>> >>>>> Sylvester >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
