Thanks for the clarification. One clarification from me on Papers as well: the delimiter is indeed en-dash by default or what is set by the CSL, so my email was really about to heartfully agree with the idea of going after anything that look like a dash to be replaced by the proper page delimiter.
On Jan 24, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Sebastian Karcher <karc...@u.northwestern.edu> wrote: > just to be clear - we have "page-range-delimiter" as an attribute of > cs:style. This defaults to en-dash, but due to multiple requests from users > mainly in Southern Europe, which had style guides that very explicitly > required a hyphen or a non-breaking hyphen we made this customizable. > Sylvester asked about this, because the specifications currently say _not_ to > do this unless page-range-format is set. They do so in two places: > Unambiguously here: > > The "locator" variable is always rendered with an en-dash replacing any > > hyphens. > > For the "page" variable, this replacement is only performed if the > > page-range-format attribute is set on cs:style > > and somewhat more ambiguously here: > > If the attribute [page-range-format] is not set, page ranges are > > rendered without reformatting. > > That was the original question, and I think everyone agrees we should replace > by the page-range-delimiter more generally. > The only remaining question is how broadly to do that: @Rintze - any reason > why we would _not_ want to replace em-dash etc.? > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Charles Parnot <charles.par...@gmail.com> > wrote: > I think most people don’t care about en-dash, and won’t see the difference, > so replacing any version of an en-dash with it makes sense, so they actually > do the right thing without ever knowing it was a problem in the first place. > The one who do care will want an en-dash and will be delighted to see you do > the right thing. The ones who are really crazy will have very weird ideas > about page ranges and dashes, and they should be ignored. > > This is what we do in Papers: replace any occurence of any of these types of > dashes with en-dash: > /* hyphen */ > @"\u2010" > /* nbr hyphen */ @"\u2011" > /* fig dash */ @"\u2012" > /* en-dash */ @"\u2013" > /* em-dash */ @"\u2014” > > I like the idea of doing the same with multiple dashes, to get it down to > just one en-dash. I had not realized this could be used, but I think it makes > sense. > > Charles > > > On Jan 23, 2014, at 11:39 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <bdar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > So the controversial question is whether that list includes em-dashes (and > > perhaps by extension triple dashes)? > > > > And therefore a modest change would add just add double-dashes? > > > > I'd suggest the modest one as general approach if unsure; always easier to > > add things like this than remove them. > > > > OTOH, I can't imagine why anyone would use an em-dash in a page range > > except to indicate the delimiter. > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Sebastian Karcher > > <karc...@u.northwestern.edu> wrote: > > This is about which symbols the page-range-delimiter replaces and when. It > > already defaults to en-dash, that part isn't controversial. > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <bdar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And in the TeX world, triple-dashes get replaced by em-dashes. > > > > I haven't followed this discussion, but looking back on it, I'm a little > > confused by what you seem to be proposing. > > > > Generally accepted "typographically correct" page range delimiter is an > > en-dash. If you want a rule, I'd say replace a dash or double-dash with an > > en-dash? > > > > Sorry if I'm missing something; been a long day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Sebastian Karcher > > <karc...@u.northwestern.edu> wrote: > > I don't know about em-dashes. Repeated hyphens are common in bibtex, so > > they may make it into metadata. > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Rintze Zelle <rintze.ze...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > Sebastian, Sylvester, does either of you (or anybody else) ever > > encounter item metadata that uses anything other than hyphens or > > en-dashes in page ranges? Do we really have to substitute repeated > > hyphens and em-dashes as well? > > > > Rintze > > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Sylvester Keil <sylves...@keil.or.at> > > wrote: > > > Sounds good to me; I guess it would be sufficient to add one more > > > sentence after the one I quoted. To make it easier for implementors we > > > could also enumerate exactly which characters should be replaced (my > > > take would be: -, en-dash, em-dash, making sure to catch things like > > > '--', too). > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > xbiblio-devel mailing list > > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > > > > > > -- > > Sebastian Karcher > > Ph.D. Candidate > > Department of Political Science > > Northwestern University > > > > 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> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > > xbiblio-devel mailing list > > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > -- > Charles Parnot > charles.par...@gmail.com > http://app.net/cparnot > twitter: @cparnot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > > -- > Sebastian Karcher > Ph.D. Candidate > Department of Political Science > Northwestern University > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel -- Charles Parnot 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