The problems with quotes and en-dashes are slightly different.
For en-dashes, the chance that auto-replace is doing something undesirable
is _quite_ small. I'm sure hyphens in page numbers exist somewhere, but I
have never seen one. On the other hand, technically we wouldn't need to do
this, since users _could_ input en-dashes themselves in the data. However,
so few people are even aware of en-dashes, and even fewer know how to type
one on their computer that I think that would be a bad, bad idea (I believe
bibtex requires the en-dash, usually as --, in the data. )
For quotations marks, there is a higher chance of problems - and they do
come up occasionally - but it is also absolutely crucial to getting correct
citations from the same data. Take an article title like: “Ain’t i a
woman?”: Towards an intersectional approach to person perception and
group-based harms
The above is how it's printed in the journal and I imagine most people
would input it like that. Now if you cite this in APA, you want:
Goff, P. A., Thomas, M. A., & Jackson, M. C. (2008). “Ain’t i a woman?”:
Towards an intersectional approach to person perception and group-based
harms. *Sex Roles*, *59*(5-6), 392–403. doi:10.1007/s11199-008-9505-4
I.e. double quotes as in the original. But in Chicago style, you want
Goff, Phillip Atiba, Margaret A. Thomas, and Matthew Christian Jackson.
“‘Ain’t I a Woman?’: Towards an Intersectional Approach to Person
Perception and Group-Based Harms.” *Sex Roles* 59, no. 5–6 (September 1,
2008): 392–403. doi:10.1007/s11199-008-9505-4.
i.e. converted single quotes. There is absolutely no alternative to having
the processor do this, so yes, I do think it's necessary and should be
uncontroversial.
So while, as a general issue, I agree it's tricky to auto-anything with
user content, I do think we're doing the right thing here in both cases.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Sylvester Keil <sylves...@keil.or.at>wrote:
> Thanks for this Chris!
>
> In my opinion this demonstrates that we must tread very carefully when
> touching user input. A similar issue arises with single and double
> quotes — IIRC citeproc-js applies conversions there as well (not quotes
> added by the processor, but quotes present in the original input). I
> have yet to look at this in more detail, but I imagine this is
> potentially even more controversial than hyphens in page numbers. Is
> there an equally strong consensus for converting quotes as there is for
> the page range delimiter?
>
>
> On Sun, 2014-01-26 at 04:14 +0000, Maloney, Christopher (NIH/NLM/NCBI)
> [C] wrote:
> > I just came across an interesting note on the description page of
> Wikipedia's citation bot (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Citation_bot#Page_numbers_with_hyphens),
> and thought it might be relevant here:
> >
> > The bot replaces hyphens with en dash in page number ranges. On rare
> occasions when a hyphen is
> > right and an en dash is wrong (hyphen in the page number itself),
> manually use the hyphen HTML
> > code ‑ instead of the dash/hyphen.
> >
> > So, according to this, there are edge cases where the substitution would
> be wrong. I don't have any examples, but if you want to pursue it, you
> could leave a note on the bot talk page (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Citation_bot), or contact the
> author (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Smith609).
> >
> >
> > Chris Maloney
> > NIH/NLM/NCBI (Contractor)
> > Building 45, 5AN.24D-22
> > 301-594-2842
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rintze Zelle [mailto:rintze.ze...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 4:47 PM
> > > To: development discussion for xbiblio
> > > Subject: Re: [xbiblio-devel] Page range delimite replacement
> > >
> > > Sebastian, Sylvester, does either of you (or anybody else) ever
> encounter
> > > item metadata that uses anything other than hyphens or en-dashes in
> page
> > > ranges? Do we really have to substitute repeated hyphens and em-dashes
> > > as well?
> > >
> > > Rintze
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Sylvester Keil <sylves...@keil.or.at
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Sounds good to me; I guess it would be sufficient to add one more
> > > > sentence after the one I quoted. To make it easier for implementors
> we
> > > > could also enumerate exactly which characters should be replaced (my
> > > > take would be: -, en-dash, em-dash, making sure to catch things like
> > > > '--', too).
> > >
> > >
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--
Sebastian Karcher
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University
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