Well I could have thought better with the intermediate suspicions of your convictions as a Marxist-Leninist, I am fully aware of your redundant behavior in trying to create yourself as a supper being, how ever I am further disappointed by your lack of understanding debates as they are.
So to it, as it may not be my position to give judgment to your empty fallacy, also again it is now categorically clear that through your years in MKHONTO you have learnt nothing but hogwash, it is either you left on the eve of the inception of UMKHONTO's initiative. But I am also confused of the criteria that may have been used to identify you in the ranks of the party as you had earlier alluded of your 17 year identification, while unlike you I will seek not to degenerate this debate and give categorical clarity on this debate "Deployment from Heaven". My understanding of this debate and where it came from was from the reactionary tendencies that might or may have lead the so called Christians ambassadors to nullify and derail our revolutionary struggle in bettering the lives of our people, you have however seen it fit to come at their defense in unscientific evidence that almost 90 % of the society is Christian, which I find hard to believe, point is... 1. Christianity and it introduction to the African context has lead to further class divisions, class unconsciousness, and has made our people to be more docile in semi-rhetoric interpretations of the world and even in your case of Labor power. 2. Exploitation of the working class comes in various forms and thus Religion had sentient found expression in the form of Christianity. 3. Christianity has and still been used as a referral of justness and apologetically as a substitute of the working class struggle, to letting exploitation find expression in the relief that "God will make a way..." 4. Racial exclamation from means of production, as a fascistic believe that "Me of the dark skin shall work in my brothers wine yard.." 5. Christianity has however been the center of patriarchy through its practice and synonymy "Let Simon have 20 wives and 130 concubines..." 6. Christianity is further trajectory of the reality facing us, "Worry not of the wealth here in earth as dear Lord my father has created most wealth for you to enjoy in heaven..." here are some notes for you to consider yes they are in the same bible you so much entrust with the responsibility of changing the society and bettering their lives - On Treasures! Matthew 6 vs 19 "Do not store up yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal, But store up for yourselves in heaven, were moth and rust do not destroy, were thieves wont break and steal..." Since you find it hard to understand points in discussions let me make it easy for you, Indeed as you say if 90 % of our society is Christian don't you think its useless for the ANCYL to pursue the Nationalisation of Mines, and dint you think the freedom chatter is just a wish list as 90% of our society is defenatly not worried of the wealth of our country. On social emancipation! Matthew 6 vs 25: "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what will you eat or drink, or about your body, what you will wear...and yet the Heavenly farther feeds them... who of you by worrying add a single hour in his life?... By this, it suggest that the 90% you reefer to shall not worry if water is not given if the bourgeois does not pay for them to put food on the table, if they are retrenched or unemployed as "thee Heavenly father will provided all. there are more found contradictions within the bible that you have to further clarify comrade Priest as it is not our tusk to transform our lives rather to wait for the heavenly father to come down on earth and relieve us from our misery. It is merely my point that should we worry whether or not does heaven exist but put more energy in seeking scientific solutions in bettering the lives of our people, and only this is trough socialism, that has clear indications of giving each according to their needs and all as to their contributions, I have not yet seen any progressive drive for us to center in to fallacy and seek to out source our revolutionary tusk to this presumed high being as to he will sort out and through our prayers hope that he will over come capitalism, class exploitation and finally win for us the class straggle against any form of oppressions by men to men. Further more dear Priest during and after the apartheid regime, Christianity was a tool to further weaken us, through religious perceptual of morals... it was through the same Christianity morally correct to have a "christian name" and that would presume your unqualified statistics of the 90 % christian. It is further correct that almost 90 % of church goers that you wrongly identify as Christian, while in actual fact are the direct opposite of what the initial Christianity should be, take note that in the South African Communist Party we have a constitution that will mark as a guiding document to our moral participation to our core communist morale, in which the fact that any one who is found to be in breach of this supreme document of the party, its principles, aims, objectives and purpose may and will face disciplinary action from the movement and may or shall be expelled taking cognizance of the violation... But however in this "Christianity vanguardsim" may and sure notably know are in contempt of the supreme document (Bible) ingcwadi engcwele, the holly book that can be wrong at no stage, to not but a few Examples... On greed! Matthew 6 vs 24: "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You can not serve both God and money..." Well it is clear tatu 'mfundisi that many of your fellow congregates do the direct opposite of this, or is it just a fallacy like I noted with you... Tell me it is said that a third of your income should go to serving the will of God, do you do as such, has any of your congregates disclosed his/her income so that the church may know its entitled share. On love!! Matthew 5 vs 43: " ... Love your enemies and pray for those who prosecute you, that you may be sons of your father in Heaven. he caused his sun to rise on the evil and the good..." Tell me is that love that we recently got from the deployee from heaven, is that love when the society vowed to never again shall it be that the country shall be oppressed but some other lobbied for the society to retract the gains of this freedom by not going to the polls in last years general elections, those are men of of God, anointed by his spirit, was the words attered from them the word of God, is it the holly spirit speaking to us. On Judgment!! Issiah 8 vs 12: "..Do not judge any of your brother... for I the Lord shall judge any evil, good for you as I am the will and the way..." Judgments have been thrown to JZ by the presumed man of God, they had found expression as the anointed ones... for I am now confused on what are you trying to justify in the degraded fallacy called Christianity. I do not seek to defend neither my position as a non Christian who worries not either heaven do or not exist but would seek to build my little heaven here. Prescription for your disease comrade Priest, I would suggest you stop wasting your time in trying to negate something that we both know you will fail to do as such, but assist us in waving a revolutionary struggle and if not convinced let you first try negating the Bible, Ohh!! Forgot it is not questionable it would be a sin for you to question the word of God... but would be very good and exceptable for you to try and play mind terrifying games by trying to scare us of the impossible... Since you are going to Cuba to pray please make sure that you don't tell them that you were recruited by the likes of Utshonyane Chris Hani you would be a disgrace to our struggle, and further don't take a chance in telling them fantasy of you trying to negate Marx writings they will trow you in jail in suspicions of you being a CIA... a reminder on what the bible says about fantasy Proverbs 12 vs 11: "...But who chases fantasies lacks judgment..." well holy one for you should have known all this before you take responsibility of the imperialistic conceptual knowledge. So my friend in all its worth the revolution is defenatly not a minute safe with you... advisably as non important as it is you should research about Conspiracy theory maybe you will close off the gabs of your limited analysis... My fellow comrades believes that there is no hope in you, changing from your anarchist stand but however un-Christian as I am I still believe there is much but little chance for understanding of tolls and the lot. Good luck with your fruitless adventure!!! Regards Sithembewena Che Tsembeyi --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Xoli Dlabantu <[email protected]> wrote: From: Xoli Dlabantu <[email protected]> Subject: Re: FW: Re: FW: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DEPLOYMENT FROM HEAVEN To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 12:55 AM Cde, 1. To say that a comrade is a mere "activist" who will "never" come to the desired level of "being" suggests mental retardation on the part of the "proponent" who would by all means impart such retardation to others so that they can be benchmarked by his/ her state of static retardness...That was offensive and deserved what it got... 2. I find nothing difficult with developing marxism as a system of ideas, nor do I regard Marx as this super-genious...rather I regard him as a person who laid foundation for the development of the society...I can see flaws in his system and like any other system...seeks maintainance... 3. An axiological perspective on class analysis is to study the value system or value judgements of that class analysis...and it doesn't alter our understanding at all but it harnesses and propells it other heights...the Struggle between humanisation...and dehumanisation...the oppressor and the oppressor...the capitalist class and the alienated working class... 4.the point behind the question on "the value of commodified labour (power) to be precise is raised against the incomplete nature of Marxism...and the answer...though it was never included...is quite easily accessible...and it doesn't take a genious...of ntsembeyi's stature or a figure out...but it merely needs research...so here I'm trying to break the religious myth or DOGMA THAT MARXISM IS COMPLETE... 5. With regard to the issue of "value of commodified labour power",..I'm consulting broadly with other socialists internationaly....and they find no anomaly...with anyone making a contribution of developing Marxism...and my intended approach is to come an exegisis...of Das Kapital Vol1... Xoli.. On 2/16/10, Brendan Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > xoli, > > you have missed the point of this forum. > > we do not shoot people or take shots at people here. > > we form a discourse that helps to benifit everybody. > > if you feel that this forum will benefit from your understanding of > the "value of commodified labour" then by all mean start a topic where > this can be discussed. > > retardation is a medical disorder, to suggest that people who struggle > to grapple with issues suffer from a mental disorder is offensive and > shows a complete disregard for understanding on your behalf. > > i often struggle to comprehend complex issues, which is why i ask > comrades to engage with me on these subjects in the hope of all of us > coming to a better understanding and finding clarity in difficult > subjects. this is why this forum exists and are the principles to > which this forum is based on. > > on a side note i have read your comments and seek clarity as to what > is meant by an 'axiological view of class struggle.' of course i > understand the words but in what manner does it alter our > understanding of class struggle > you could say im grappling with an understanding of this statement > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
