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>>> Xoli Dlabantu <[email protected]> 2/16/2010 4:55 PM >>> Cde, From a dictionary definition... sci·ence (sns) n. 1. a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena. c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study. 2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science. 3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing. 4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience. 5. Science Christian Science. Moving further, I put it before you that christianity is itself inherently scientific. Every science's maturity is judged by its use of mathematics as a means of proving concepts, theories and concepts.... Now with regards to christianity, its doctrine originates from the TORAH which are the 5 books which were collected by writers called ELOHISTS, as well YAHWISTS and P writers or Priestly writers... In 1992, an ATHEIST(non-believer)and statitian called DROSNIN was inspired by what a certain scientist called (ISAAC NEWTON) who happened to be a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN who believed that... THERE WAS A HIDDEN CODE IN THE BIBLE...Well as a believer and a scientist as well, he was inspired by a word in the bible that said,"Now Daniel, I want you to keep these words ad don't reveal them untill the end of times." He sought to research abot the concept and came with this conclusion: if taken from the original text of the TORAH (taken from Tel Aviv Library) the Bible in its raw form had no sentences, appostrophies, pancuations and full stops...its was one string without breaks...to exemplify this I woud say...in the original text...translated in english for convienience..it would be like..INTHEBEGINNINGTHEEARTHWASFORMLESSANDVOIDAND THE SPIRITOFTHELORDWASBROODINGOVERTHEPREMEDIEVALDEEPAND GODSAIDLETTHEREBELIGHTANDTHEREWASLIGHTANDGODSAIDITWASGOODANDGODSEPARATEDDARKNESSFROMLIGHT..... having said that, he termed thatthe one dimensional form of the bible...or the first dimension of the bible...which could be read like any other book...the dimension that priests and everyone understands.... from there, he took the string..and broke it into equal lengths and equal breadths to give a cartersian plane...an x...and a y dimension of the string.... the above formed a Matrix...and it fell within the ambit of two dimensional forms in mathematics... he came with a simple formula that we are all familiar with...ARITHMATIC SEQUENCE...an = a1 + (n-1) d..... to brea k the code... he later on employed what he called Equidistant Letter Sequences...which was a German military code to encode messages.... to test his findings, he took all the Israeli Kings and tested them on the formula... the first startling discovery was the projected death of Prime Minister Perez who was about to be assasinated by a Jewish estrimist in 1993...Perez was told but his intelligence including him mocked Drosnin... on the projected day.. the whole world watched as he was killed in the same fashion that the Bible Code projected it... from then ownwards, Drosnin wrote books on the subject of the bible code... now the logical question that everyone is asking is" HOW ON EARTH WOULD A PILGRIM WHO LIVED 4000 YEARS AGO KNOW ABOUT PEREZ WHO LIVED 4000 YEARS LATER... now those findings are on the 2nd mathematical dimension and as the bible as stated in the book of revelations has 7 dimensions... our science has identified 4 dimensions so far...and we are living in the third dimension... in 1984..a certain mathematician discovered the 4th dimension...which is the inverse of the 3rd dimension..our dimension.. in terms of the bible code...drosnin is pursuing the 3rd dimension...which is length, breadth and height...in a plane that would be x..y...and z...axis...and at that level...three dimensional form mathematics would apply..... He's yet to pursue the forth dimension...which science hasn't explored yet except mathematics..but the bible talks of 7 dimensions...Muslims even talk of 7 heavens... drosnin believes that(though he is an ATHEIST) everything that exist is encoded in that book...it is the Genetic makeup of reality...only if science could move at a faster pace, we could be able to prove that...but science is in pursuit of maximisation of profit and maintainance osf status quo than discover our tue existence I wish however to state that Drosnin still remains an ATHEIST...he doesn't believe in God..but he's discovered the wonders of the Bible... NOW I CHALLENGE EVERYONE IN THIS DEBATE...TO RESEARCH ABOUT THESE ISSUES....BY GOOGLING THE BIBLE CODE OR DROSNIN IN THE NET...BEFORE WE CAN COME WITH RELIGIOUS AND DOGMATIC STANCES ON WHETHER GOD EXISTS OR CHRISTIANITY IS AN OPIUM OR NOT... Now point is that Marxism was never intended to be a Dogma...to be sheepishly pursued , but was meant to be a guide...and i hail it in that regard...but its by no means my religion...as Christianity is in fact not MY RELIGION but my way of life...its a lifestyle to me...and I don't follow it sheepishly... ONE OTHER THING I WISH TO HIGHLIGHT IS THAT PERHAPS I'VE BEEN TOO HUSH IN CONTESTING MY VIEWS...AND I APOLOGISE TO EVERYONE ABOUT THAT...BUT I WOULD LIKE US TO DELVE DEEPER ON THIS DEBATE.... XOLI... On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Samson Zondi <[email protected]> wrote: Cde Xoli help to help myself, how is Christianity scientific? What is scientific about it? Or should I pose my question like this: what is science to begin with? >>> Xoli Dlabantu <[email protected]> 2/16/2010 1:38 PM >>> Cde, The issue of religion needs to be understood in its proper context... Every subjective pronouncement that is regarded as "absolute"...cannot be changed...too advanced for human thought....is in itself RELIGION...including the utterances that christianity is unscientific.... CAUSE I CAN PROVE IT BEFORE YOU THAT CHRISTIANITY IS VERY SCIENTIFIC...if Marxism is regarded as to advanced for ordinary activists like xoli...then that is religion...MARXISM IS THE UNIVERSAL ACCUMULATION OF KNOWLEDGE...NOT DOGMA...AND SERVES TO GUIDE US... On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:55 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde, > 1. To say that a comrade is a mere "activist" who will "never" come to > the desired level of "being" suggests mental retardation on the part > of the "proponent" who would by all means impart such retardation to > others so that they can be benchmarked by his/ her state of static > retardness...That was offensive and deserved what it got... > 2. I find nothing difficult with developing marxism as a system of > ideas, nor do I regard Marx as this super-genious...rather I regard > him as a person who laid foundation for the development of the > society...I can see flaws in his system and like any other > system...seeks maintainance... > 3. An axiological perspective on class analysis is to study the value > system or value judgements of that class analysis...and it doesn't > alter our understanding at all but it harnesses and propells it other > heights...the Struggle between humanisation...and dehumanisation...the > oppressor and the oppressor...the capitalist class and the alienated > working class... > 4.the point behind the question on "the value of commodified labour > (power) to be precise is raised against the incomplete nature of > Marxism...and the answer...though it was never included...is quite > easily accessible...and it doesn't take a genious...of ntsembeyi's > stature or a figure out...but it merely needs research...so here I'm > trying to break the religious myth or DOGMA THAT MARXISM IS > COMPLETE... > 5. With regard to the issue of "value of commodified labour > power",..I'm consulting broadly with other socialists > internationaly....and they find no anomaly...with anyone making a > contribution of developing Marxism...and my intended approach is to > come an exegisis...of Das Kapital Vol1... > Xoli.. > > On 2/16/10, Brendan Lee <[email protected]> wrote: >> xoli, >> >> you have missed the point of this forum. >> >> we do not shoot people or take shots at people here. >> >> we form a discourse that helps to benifit everybody. >> >> if you feel that this forum will benefit from your understanding of >> the "value of commodified labour" then by all mean start a topic where >> this can be discussed. >> >> retardation is a medical disorder, to suggest that people who struggle >> to grapple with issues suffer from a mental disorder is offensive and >> shows a complete disregard for understanding on your behalf. >> >> i often struggle to comprehend complex issues, which is why i ask >> comrades to engage with me on these subjects in the hope of all of us >> coming to a better understanding and finding clarity in difficult >> subjects. this is why this forum exists and are the principles to >> which this forum is based on. >> >> on a side note i have read your comments and seek clarity as to what >> is meant by an 'axiological view of class struggle.' of course i >> understand the words but in what manner does it alter our >> understanding of class struggle >> you could say im grappling with an understanding of this statement >> >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >> to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >> [email protected] . >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have >> to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an >> e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] > . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have > to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an > e-mail to this address (repeat): > [email protected] . > ______________________ Cde Xoli If it happens that we arrive to the discussion forum to show other s that we are the better under standers by undermining the contribution of other people if they battle to understand your point that will be incorrect. Comrades there are better ways of letting an individual understand the points in discussions not degrading his/her inputs by suggesting that you are better thought out as compare to another leaders. I hope that Cde Xoli you bitterly understand the purpose of this forum and you may not want to degenerate it unnecessarily so please can you please leave in that standard before we can find ourselves drawn into you agenda we might not know what is it that it seeks to achieve. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ South Africa's premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za ( http://www.webmail.co.za/ ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. 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