Hi, Leaf Joy,

Following are what I have learned so far. 

It is a personal experience instead of a description.

In the Soto Zen tradition, YES. "Seeing things as is without ego, Dharma, etc.", It follows Heart Sutra.

The Chinese Chan follows closer to Diamond Sutra, "All forms are empty in nature. If one sees through all forms not as form, then one sees Buddha."

The key is "practice and you shall witness."

Discussions are in the domain of mind.  While sitting Zen is in a different domain entirely by itself.


mtpathy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
when i sit and look at a blank wall, it is only a blank wall
that should be seen, but instead i see thoughts and images,
often times as if they were projected onto the wall by
a movie projector.

when i look at clouds in the sky, its clouds that should be seen
but instead i see fishes and ducks, lawnmowers mowing down dragons.

i'm starting to learn how to see the wall, and the cloud more and
my inward projection onto them less.

is this the correct course of focus.

learning to differentiate between thoughts in my head and the world
around me, so that one doesn't project onto the other?

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