Dear Bill At the end you or me or the both us lost the real point which is shows how useless and what a waste of time trying to explain things to people who have already many preconcepts in their minds. Yes I am very happy to be the endless begginer. What about you?
Mayka --- In [email protected], "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Donald, > > Thank you for your interesting post. My comments are imbedded below: > > Donald Hwong wrote: > > Good morning Bill, > Mayka's answer typifies one of the major difference between a Chinese Linage > and wester Zen. This is what I have discovered after learning about Zen in > English. > > In my opinion Mayka's answer is the same as most Westerners; in fact the > same as most beginning zen students. They believe Buddha Nature is > something that someone else has, someone special - and they need to do > something to 'polish-up' or 'evolve' their Buddha Nature before it's mature. > > Most of the Chinese Buddhists believe our Buddha nature are within us, but > only through Chan practice can we rid of karma and let it shine through. > > This is what I was taught from both a Japanese Soto and a Rinzai teacher - > that you already are Buddha, and that your practice is to simply 'realize' > that. 'Realize' meaning to 'become aware', and also meaning to 'actualize' > or 'make real'. > > A Chan practitioner means in Chinese to cultivate Bodhisattva Heart and to > act in Bodhisattva way - a cycle fine-tunes each other until "everything" is > consummated, satisfied and fulfilled. Which is the Third Practice in our > school. > > I was taught not to 'cultivate', as 'to grow or nurture', because your > Buddha Nature is already present and complete; but to 'realize' or > 'discover' it by 'peeling away all doubts' and 'revealing' or 'realizing' > your Buddha Nature. > > While a meditative practice based on Chi enable the practitioner to be > connected with the universe, it constantly feeds the practitioner with life > force and wisdom far beyond his mental capacity. > > I too was taught that mental capacity or 'intellect' is not involved in > 'realizing' your Buddha Nature. In fact I was led to believe and in fact > have experienced that intellect, although not mutually exclusive with Buddha > Nature, can be a big hindrance in realization. > > Chi foundation seems to be another major difference between a Chinese Chan > practitioner and a western one. When BodhiDharma taught for the first time > in China, at Shaolin, both Motion Chan and Sitting Chan, the only common > thread of the two is the cultivation of the Chi/Qi/Ki. Without Chi, there > is no power to transform a person. Without Chi the entire practice becomes > a mental interpretation of the experience instead of the experience itself. > > The Soto and Rinzai teachers with whom I was involved did acknowledge Chi > and its important role in realization, but I was not taught any specific > practices to cultivate Chi other than zazen. It was inferred that > practicing zazen was all that was needed. From my experience that seems so. > > This may be why the foundamental Buddhism of karma and cause and effect is > not a major teaching in western Zen, because there is no practice to support > it. > > The Soto and Rinzai teachers with whom I was involved did teach karma and > cause-and-effect; but the clear understanding is that these are illusionary > and after realization are not important. Karma and cause-and- effect must > have an object on which to attach. I understand that object to be the Self. > When the Self slips away and there is only Buddha Nature remaining, on what > does karma and cause-and-effect operate? > > These are just my personal observations after discussion with several > western Zen priests. > > These are my personal observations after a long and intimate student-teacher > relationship with the two Soto and Rinzai teachers, many conversations and > discussions with other zen practitioners and zen teachers of many disparate > lineages, and most importantly after 40+ years of practice. > > Do let me know your comments. > > You got them! > > _/\_ > Donald > > Bill! > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
