Dear Bill

At the end you or me or the both us lost the real point which is 
shows how useless and what a waste of time trying to explain things 
to people who have already many preconcepts in their minds.  Yes I am 
very happy to be  the endless begginer.  What about you?


--- In, "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Donald,
> Thank you for your interesting post.  My comments are imbedded 
> Donald Hwong wrote:
> Good morning Bill,
> Mayka's answer typifies one of the major difference between a 
Chinese Linage
> and wester Zen.  This is what I have discovered after learning 
about Zen in
> English.
> In my opinion Mayka's answer is the same as most Westerners; in 
fact the
> same as most beginning zen students.  They believe Buddha Nature is
> something that someone else has, someone special - and they need to 
> something to 'polish-up' or 'evolve' their Buddha Nature before 
it's mature.
> Most of the Chinese Buddhists believe our Buddha nature are within 
us, but
> only through Chan practice can we rid of karma and let it shine 
> This is what I was taught from both a Japanese Soto and a Rinzai 
teacher -
> that you already are Buddha, and that your practice is to 
simply 'realize'
> that.  'Realize' meaning to 'become aware', and also meaning 
to 'actualize'
> or 'make real'.
> A Chan practitioner means in Chinese to cultivate Bodhisattva Heart 
and to
> act in Bodhisattva way - a cycle fine-tunes each other 
until "everything" is
> consummated, satisfied and fulfilled.  Which is the Third Practice 
in our
> school.
> I was taught not to 'cultivate', as 'to grow or nurture', because 
> Buddha Nature is already present and complete;  but to 'realize' or
> 'discover' it by 'peeling away all doubts' and 'revealing' 
or 'realizing'
> your Buddha Nature.
>  While a meditative practice based on Chi enable the practitioner 
to be
> connected with the universe, it constantly feeds the practitioner 
with life
> force and wisdom far beyond his mental capacity.
> I too was taught that mental capacity or 'intellect' is not 
involved in
> 'realizing' your Buddha Nature.  In fact I was led to believe and 
in fact
> have experienced that intellect, although not mutually exclusive 
with Buddha
> Nature, can be a big hindrance in realization.
> Chi foundation seems to be another major difference between a 
Chinese Chan
> practitioner and a western one.  When BodhiDharma taught for the 
first time
> in China, at Shaolin, both Motion Chan and Sitting Chan, the only 
> thread of the two is the cultivation of the Chi/Qi/Ki.  Without 
Chi, there
> is no power to transform a person.  Without Chi the entire practice 
> a mental interpretation of the experience instead of the experience 
> The Soto and Rinzai teachers with whom I was involved did 
acknowledge Chi
> and its important role in realization, but I was not taught any 
> practices to cultivate Chi other than zazen.  It was inferred that
> practicing zazen was all that was needed.  From my experience that 
seems so.
> This may be why the foundamental Buddhism of karma and cause and 
effect is
> not a major teaching in western Zen, because there is no practice 
to support
> it.
> The Soto and Rinzai teachers with whom I was involved did teach 
karma and
> cause-and-effect; but the clear understanding is that these are 
> and after realization are not important.  Karma and cause-and-
effect must
> have an object on which to attach.  I understand that object to be 
the Self.
> When the Self slips away and there is only Buddha Nature remaining, 
on what
> does karma and cause-and-effect operate?
> These are just my personal observations after discussion with 
> western Zen priests.
> These are my personal observations after a long and intimate 
> relationship with the two Soto and Rinzai teachers, many 
conversations and
> discussions with other zen practitioners and zen teachers of many 
> lineages, and most importantly after 40+ years of practice.
> Do let me know your comments.
> You got them!
> _/\_
> Donald
> Bill!

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