--- In [email protected], "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> First of all, WELCOME TO THE YAHOO! ZEN FORUM. We're all beginners
> here, so I hope you will feel right at home.
>
> Since you're a newbie, I'll be especially gentle with you. My
> comments on your posting are imbedded below:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "JEFF K." <quietmind@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > My name is Jeff K., and I am a new member, and a newcomer along
the
> path of Zen Buddhism. I am wrestling with the Buddhist concept
> of "no birth-no death", which I first encountered in Thich Nhat
> Hanh's book, "The Heart of the Buddha".
> >
> > When I first came upon the concept, I was mystified and confused.
> Thankfully, I continued reading the book (which I find excellent!)
> and Thay returned to the "no birth-no death" concept from another
> angle. Now I am beginning to understand the concept, though not as
> deeply as I'd like.
>
> First of all, a concept like this 'No Birth-No Death', is not an
> important component of zen. In fact no concepts are. Any concept
> you, or Thich Nhat Hanh, or even Siddhartha Guatama himself had or
> have are a not an imporant component of zen.
>
> Second of all, UNDERSTANDING, such as 'understanding concepts like
> this one', or 'understanding koans', or 'understanding Buddhist
> dogma', is not at all necessary to practice zen - in fact in my
> opinion the more 'understanding' you have, the further you are from
> Buddha Mind.
>
> >
> > My superficial understanding is: Most people fear death because
we
> believe that once we "die", we are annihilated. Buddhism teaches
that
> the person is never "destroyed"; rather, our existence continues,
> albeit possibly in another form. Even a cremated body is never
> totally destroyed or eliminated; ashes, bones, and vapors still
> exist. I analogize this to the concept in physics that matter
cannot
> be destroyed. These elements of our body, now in the soil and/or
air,
> will sustain other life forms.
> >
> > Perhaps I have it all wrong, but I'd greatly appreciate feedback
> from other group members.
> > ...Jeff K.
> >
>
> You don't 'have it wrong'. Your understanding of this concept is
as
> good as any, and better than most - but I again want to emphasize
> that whatever that understanding is, it is not relevant to zen.
>
> My 'understanding' of 'No Birth-No Death' is just what it says:
> There is no such thing as 'Birth' or 'Death'. They are both just
> concepts which attempt to characterize a begining of life and and
end
> of life. Life is not 'you', as in your ego, your sense of being or
> sense of individualism. Ego and individualism, the subject-object
or
> me-you separation, are just illusions - dreams. Since life does
not
> begin at your birth, and does not end at your death, then what good
> are these words? What do they mean? Birth-Death, No Birth-No
> Death. You might also say 'No Good-No Bad', or 'No Me-No You'.
None
> of these things exist. There is only THIS!
>
> But again I want to empahsize that whatever MY understanding of
this
> concept is, it is not relevant to zen.
>
> Only THIS! And to experience THIS, you need only to meditate
> (zazen). You don't need to UNDERSTAND anything.
>
> ...Bill!
Hello Bill,
Thanks for your reply. I have come across the Zen view that, as you
say, "you don't have to understand anything". Why, though, did Thich
Nhat Hanh, a Zen Buddhist, deal with this "no birth-no death" in his
book? The impression I got was that one should contemplate "no birth-
no death" as a core concept of Buddhism. If it is a core Buddhist
concept, is the Zen concept ("you don't need to understand")at odds
with Buddhism?
...Jeff
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!
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