Does that include this logic?


From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL 
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Zen] Dear Bill


*** After a Good Night’s Sleep I’ve Revised this Posting in Green Font and 
Re-sent ****

Al and Chuck,

subject/object (observation),  an ILLUSION of time (separate sequential actions 
(digital)), and a BELIEF in cause & effect (an illusory relationship between 
selected sets of separate sequential actions).   Without these illusions and 
beliefs there is no logic, and without logic there is no science.

The Buddhist doctrine of Dependent Origination is also an BELIEF based on the 
same a similar illusory relationship between separate sequential actions, but 
it is believed that there is only one Action (like the Big Bang) that is a 
continuous action (analog) and that the relationships are manifested in the 
changing form of the one of the one Action .  Karma is a more complex illusion 
which is based on the belief of Dependent Origination, and then adds the 
concepts that the relationships can propagate qualities (good/bad, or some kind 
of quality), and  these qualities can be associated with the actor (presumably 
the ‘self’ associated with the changes in the Action) and even accumulate.  One 
way to accommodate this would be if Dependent Origination allows for sets of 
actions (instead of just one Action), and each set might be associated with a 
‘self’, but this is just speculation on my part.

Have you had enough tea for today?  If so, wash your teacups!

Chuck said he’ll return to counting his breathes.  If so,  his teacup should be 
empty by now.

Al, cut up your Master Card!



From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck 
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Zen] Dear Bill




Again, I think you are right.


It is difficult for us not to wonder about these things, however, doing so 
serves no real purpose. 


Nothing is more futile than arguing matters of faith.


I’ll return to counting my breaths J




From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike 
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Dear Bill



Both these kinds of issues cannot be determined and require a certain amount of 
faith and belief (less so in science). This is why Buddha remained silent when 
asked metaphysical questions of this kind. Answering them makes no difference 
to human suffering and Buddhism, after all, is only for the purpose of ending 
suffering - not deciding whether the universe was created etc. In India, when 
Buddhism became more interested in discussing these kinds of issues it died. 

----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, 6 July, 2008 6:57:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Dear Bill

From: Chuck Gierhart When you ask this question about a blade of grass, the
Pacific Ocean or a rock, no answer is possible. You can describe how these
things interact with their environment or the benefit we derive from them
but thatâ?Ts not the same as a purpose. To ask what purpose these things
have is a loaded question. The question itself implies that a supreme being
create them for a purpose.>

So you think that Zen is Atheism? That everything is a product of blind luck
and evolution? That one single cell amoeba kept evolving over billions of
years into incredibly complex strands of DNA for millions of completely
unconnected creatures?

Isn't Evolution an act of faith? Isn't the belief in no intelligent higher
power also a religion?



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