Anthony,
Again, were cross-talking. I’m starting to get woozy like I did when we tried to have a discussion on cause-and-effect. Maybe it’s because disease and symptom have the same relationship as cause and effect. This was my statement: “…medicine rarely ‘cures’ anything. Most medicine merely masks the symptoms. The disease is still there.” My statement was not an attempt to label the whole science of medicine as nonsense. It uses the modifiers ‘rarely’ and ‘most’, not ‘always’ and ‘all’. There is a well-known approach to problem-solving known as aeopathy which is used in a lot of disciplines, including computer science, that is based on treating the symptoms of a problem rather than the cause of the problem. The idea is that when the symptoms are gone, the problem is fixed. The example you give below about using disinfectant on an infected leg is not aeopathy. It’s not treating the symptoms of infection (fever, swelling, redness, pain, etc…), it’s trying to eliminate the cause of the infection by killing the bacteria or virus which is causing the infection. Depression is not a disease. Depression is a symptom. Please read the definition below: “Major depressive disorder (also known as recurrent depressive disorder, clinical depression, major depression, unipolar depression, or unipolar disorder) is a mental disorder <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder> characterized by an all-encompassing low mood <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(mood)> accompanied by low self-esteem <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem> , and by loss of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia> interest or pleasure in normally enjoyable activities. The term "major depressive disorder" was selected by the American Psychiatric Association <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psychiatric_Association> to designate this symptom cluster <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndrome> as a mood <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_disorder> disorder in the 1980 version of the Diagnostic and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders> Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III), and has become widely used since. The general term depression is often used to denote the disorder; but as it can also be used in reference to other types of psychological depression, it is disfavored over more precise terminology for the disorder in clinical and research use.” WIKIPEDIA All I was trying to say was: medication, especially medication given for symptoms such as depression, do not CURE the cause of the depression. They just alleviate the depression, which is the symptom. These types of medicines are not cures. That’s all I wanted to say. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:52 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. Bill, The general statement itself is incorrect. If it was, the whole science of medicine can be labelled as nonsense. If your leg gets hurt, what use for disinfectant? Let your body heals itself. If anybody gets infected by anthrax, he is doomed. Medicine cannot cure all, but it is important. In particular, depression is a complicated disease, it may be caused by physiological and psychological imbalances, each requires different treatment, says experts. Anthony --- On Mon, 23/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 9:24 AM Anthony, My statement was general, but that doesn’t mean it was incorrect. Aspirin does reduce fever, but should NOT be taken to reduce fever if you don’t know the cause of the fever. Fever is a mechanism the body uses to heal itself – an example would be to fight infection. If you take aspirin and reduce the fever you might be depriving your body of one the weapons it’s using to fight an infection, and the infection might go on unchecked. Aspirin is this case does nothing to address the infection. Even antibiotics do not directly address an infection. They are homeopathic in that they themselves are a pathogen and stimulate the body’s natural responses, which then may have an effect on the infection. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:17 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. Bill, Your statement is too general, so that you would also stop patients taking aspirin to cure fever. As concerns depression, the drug itself may or may not heal the disease, depending on the root cause. I read recent articles describing the causes for the sickness. they seem to say at least part are caused by, like you say, physical inbalances, That should respond to medicine. Anthony --- On Sun, 22/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 22 August, 2010, 3:30 PM Anthony, My statement was not anti-science. For example an anti-depressant does not cure a disease, it only addresses one of the symptoms of a disease – depression. You could be depressed because you’ve had your leg cut off. Taking anti-depressants might make you ‘feel’ better, but it won’t fix your leg. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:51 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. Bill, It is not a bubble. Your view is another case of anti-science. I say may or may not be antidepressant that works for DP. He should consult a good physician. Anthony --- On Sat, 21/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 21 August, 2010, 10:28 AM Anthony, I hate to burst another one of your bubbles, but medicine rarely ‘cures’ anything. Most medicine merely masks the symptoms. The disease is still there. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:37 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. If OCD results from physical abnormalities, it should be able to be cured or corrected by medicine. That may or may not be antidepressant. Years ago, it was believed that depressant is caused by 'all in the head', but now it is being treated with the help of medicine. I think medicine plus mental correction should be useful. Anthony --- On Fri, 20/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] I did like the story. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 20 August, 2010, 6:34 PM DP, Like I said in a previous post, I think zen practice can help ameliorate the effects of OCD, but not cure it. From what I understand OCD is the result of some kind of physical abnormalities – like a chemical imbalance in the brain or a ‘wiring’ difference. Whatever it is, OCD is your reality – like diabetes or lactose intolerance. It’s up to you to make the most of your life, not just IN SPITE of OCD, but in part BECAUSE of OCD. It’s a feature you have. Embrace it and learn to enjoy life with it. As far as it being ‘all in your head’, OCD is not all in your head, but how you deal with it is. You could liken it to being deaf or having only one leg. You can pity yourself for the ‘disability’, or you can accept it, embrace it, deal with it and get on with the only life you have – this one. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DP Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 4:44 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] I did like the story. IT does put things into perspective. I'm liking this place more than the other forum I was on. :) What frsutrated me about it was that some people felt that what they were quoting was so profound that they didn't need to even respond to me. Stuff like "fear of death is fear of life" didn't really do much for me. Your stories, however, do give me a unique perspective. Also, I appreciate that people here, while not neccesarily understanding OCD, are at least ready to believe it's a real disorder and not just "all in mmy head." __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5380 (20100819) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5381 (20100820) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5383 (20100820) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5383 (20100820) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5385 (20100821) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5385 (20100821) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5386 (20100822) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5386 (20100822) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5387 (20100823) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
